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Alternative Fuels An energy source alternative to using fossil fuels. Materials or substances that can be used as a fuel, other than conventional fuels. Waste oils, vegetable oils or animal fats, which can be used alone, or blended with fossil fuels.

Alternative Fuels

Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel


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  #1  
Old 06-25-2007, 04:27 PM
Jud Jud is offline
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Default Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

Hello:
I've noticed some discussion about the differences and similarities between home heating oil and diesel fuel. For those who are interested, "home heating oil" is not just one distillate from crude oil. The chemical formulas for heating oil vary. Without considering its Sulphur content, "home heating oil" includes the following combinations of carbon ("C") and Hydrogen ("H"): C14H30 (meaning 14 atoms of carbon with 30 atoms of hydrogen), C15H32, C16H34, C17H36, C18H38, C19H40 and C20H42. Likewise, "diesel fuel" also varies in its chemical formula. The "average" is C12H26; however, the "range" is from C10H26 to C15H32, overlapping with the "lighter" end of the "home heating oil" spectrum. I found this information mostly in WIKPEDIA and thought it was worth repeating here.
Jud

And, I almost forgot to add, it is just because these two distillates are so similar (and, in some cases, identical) that dye is added to "home heating oil" to differentiate it from the taxed "diesel fuel" used in over-the-road and like applications. This practice is the case in the USA and in Europe.
Jud
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Old 06-25-2007, 11:12 PM
Franz Franz is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

Well now there's another reason to not believe a damn thing on Wikipostsomcrap.

Swing on by the rack at the local tank farm and you'll learn real quick #2 Diesel and #2 home heating oil are the same distilate from the same tank. Red die is added at the filpipe entering the tank truck or wagon for untaxed loads.

Then again, I don't post on Wikipostsomcrap, I just buy #2 oil for the last 40 years.
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Old 06-26-2007, 12:22 AM
dieselfreakcjw dieselfreakcjw is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

I love the dyed fuel as it tends to make my pickup run well and its a little easier on my wallet Although it is quite illegal........Ah hem by the way you didnt hear this from me
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Old 06-26-2007, 08:04 AM
Jud Jud is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

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Originally Posted by dieselfreakcjw View Post
I love the dyed fuel as it tends to make my pickup run well and its a little easier on my wallet Although it is quite illegal........Ah hem by the way you didnt hear this from me
ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Nobody heard that from you...
Jud
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Old 06-26-2007, 09:43 AM
Robert Haus Robert Haus is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

There's nothing more patriotic than avoiding a tax....that's why the country was founded you know!

...but incase someone's watching, I am sure you were only using that truck on the farm where road taxes wouldn't be applicable anyway.

Reminds me of something I recently heard in the news: A guy had set up his diesel car to burn used vegetable oil (nothing new here) ...but the state, I can't remember which...in an effort to stifle American inventiveness (to bring us in line with the rest of the 3rd world nations, I am sure) .....has decided to assess him a 2000 dollar a year penalty for using a fuel with no road taxes on it!!!

...remember, be responsible, spay or neuter your politicians today.


rh
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Old 06-26-2007, 01:48 PM
Jud Jud is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

Well---I have read that IF we move toward more fuel efficient trucks and cars, the "income" from the fuel taxes on gasoline and diesel imposed by the states and the federal government will decline. This will mean that there will be less money in the bank for highways (most of the fuel tax goes into trust funds for highway maintenance) and that the politicians will be forced to come up with a new way to make us all pay for being more efficient. Thus, there is no real incentive to shift more efficient hybrid cars or return to the days of yesteryear when electric trucks were common on delivery routes in the cities. (I can still remember seeing an electric truck (a Franklin, I think) in operation in the 1950s in Boston on the Commonwealth Pier.) There is something wrong with this picture. We can make huge quantities of alcohol in the USA and this is a clean-burning fuel and it would have less of a corrosive impact on our engines. But, to do so, you'd have to convince the government to drop the huge taxes on alcohol distilled for this purpose. A recently televised auto race was run mostly with clean-burning alcohol...but the folks added that "some" gasoline was added to avoid the heavier tax imposed on straight alcohol. This also makes no sense to me. What's the matter with these politicians???
Jud
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:13 PM
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Forrest A Forrest A is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselfreakcjw View Post
I love the dyed fuel as it tends to make my pickup run well and its a little easier on my wallet Although it is quite illegal........Ah hem by the way you didnt hear this from me
Not to rain on your party, make sure you know what you are getting into if this sounds tempting:

Here is some good reading if you are tempted to use the dyed farm fuel...
notice the word "felony" sprinkled throughout... It's just not worth that hanging on your record. Sure the link is for IL but the end result is similar in other states, IL is just a good example. I know people that have been pulled over and dipped and then all of their other vehicles dipped also so the first offense was the initial stop and when there other vehicles were checked, guess what happened next...

One other thing, tractor pullers be ware, the parking areas of some pulls make perfect dipping stations too.

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/Motor...quirements.htm


Forrest A
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:43 PM
Jud Jud is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

Just to make sure you all understand where I was going with this when I started this thread, the point of this discussion was not about running home heating oil in a pickup truck or other motor vehicle. The sole and only point was to talk seriously about the fuel we use in our vintage diesels. These engines are half a century to a century old. As preservers of this technology, we also need to protect our equipment from damage so as to pass it on to the next generation of young people who will buy and operate these engines. The parts for these old timers are very few and very far between. Let's all make sure we know exactly what's in the fuel we use in these engines and how it affects the engines. Too much sulphur in the presence of water vapor, and a weak sulphuric acid forms in the engine, damaging seals, injectors, pumps, and finely machined surfaces. If we have a stationary engine running an electric plant, can we plumb it into the home heating oil system for our furnaces??? These are the kinds of issues that are on the table---not putting un-taxed fuel into a pickup.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:00 PM
Douglas Douglas is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

Not as difficult to pull the dye out of coloured fuel as most think....
At least in Ontario Canada there are also some grades of fuel oil that can be burnded in diesel that have no dye because it wasn't intended or expect the general public would be buying the products

This leads to some organized crime, some of this I have seen first hand from my days in the fuel buisness
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Old 06-26-2007, 04:07 PM
Jud Jud is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

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Originally Posted by Franz© View Post
Well now there's another reason to not believe a damn thing on Wikipostsomcrap.

Swing on by the rack at the local tank farm and you'll learn real quick #2 Diesel and #2 home heating oil are the same distilate from the same tank. Red die is added at the filpipe entering the tank truck or wagon for untaxed loads.

Then again, I don't post on Wikipostsomcrap, I just buy #2 oil for the last 40 years.
Well---let's see, petroleum industry sources, which I'm sure you wouldn't quote either, say that these substances, while virtually the same, are not entirely identical. Diesel has what's called a "cetane" number which describes the ignition quality of the fuel. To be used in a diesel engine, the fuel must meet the "cetane" requirements set by the manufacuturer. Some will tolerate almost anything, others may not. Diesel fuels generally have a cetane number of between 40 to 55. This number represents the fuel's relative ability to be ignited, Petroleum sources say that the number refers to a measure of a fuel's "ignition delay," which is the time from the instant of injection to the instant of combustion.

Lower speed diesels seem tolerant of very low cetane number fuels. Higher speed engines need a fuel with a higher cetane number.

Generally, industry sources I've read say that there are 2 commercial grades of diesel fuel. The first has a cetane number between 40 and 46. This is sometimes called "regular" diesel. Fuel with a cetane rating of between 46 to 50 sometimes is called "premium" diesel. Premium diesel often has additives to lubricate the injection pump and injectors, detergents to clean the pump and the injectors, and water dispursants.

So, from what I have been able to learn, the long and the short of it is that diesel fuel and home heating oil, while very much the same, especially in the C10H26 to C15H32 range, are not entirely identical substances. Home heating oil probably will work in many if not all applications---especially when running a vintage diesel and other lower speed applications. It seems to me that, for higher speed applications, a higher cetane rating would be required along with the additives that go with the higher grade of fuel.
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Old 06-26-2007, 04:28 PM
Franz Franz is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

""It seems to me that, for higher speed applications, a higher cetane rating would be required along with the additives that go with the higher grade of fuel.""

Therein lies the reason for the long known and much used 5 gallon bucket.
Millions of 5 gallon buckets have given their lives carrying ADDITIVES from the refinery to the racking terminal. Back in the 60s & 70s millions of steel buckets gave their lives so Agway could market the much balyhooed Green Diesel fuel they marketed.

Sorry, but the 2000 gallons in the front compartment that will be dropped in the tank at Bubba's Truck Stop as clear taxed Diesel, and the 1800 galons of RED #2 home heating oil in compartment #2 of the trailer came thru the same filler pipe at the rack and the same tank back on the farm. Only the color has been changed to profit various governmental agencys.
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Old 07-06-2007, 09:00 PM
Jud Jud is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

Whatever!! It would appear that some folks seem to know all there is to know about this subject so I'll leave it up to them to explain how Cetane is determined and why this issue may be important to old engine owners as well as why the additives (and their exact nature) are needed for many diesel engines. I will also leave it to the expert to explain to the readers why this may be an issue of significant importance to owners of vintage diesels who may be interested in using vegetable oils in their engines. I'll also leave it up to the experts tell us all about No. 1 diesel fuel and how wax is an issue in No. 2 diesel oil. We are indeed very lucky to have such widely versed correspondents. I am told by the manager of the local oil terminal that while the stuff may come thru the same pipe, the computers control all the valves. Perhaps out espert advisor can tell us just how this complex system funtions.
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Old 07-06-2007, 11:25 PM
Motormowers Motormowers is offline
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

As far as im concerned its the same basic stuff because it all comes from the same crude oil. It just goes through differant processes to become diesel, then home heating oil,then kerosene,then gasoline after many refinements. All my diesels ran much better on red fuel when I was in a pinch over the years. Its much oilyer and heavyer. Wax has always been a problem in diesel, hell the motor oils of the dark ages were LOADED with it because it came from the same source as fuels did. That why the 40 year old oil you have in the 5S engine that was sitting in a barn since 1959 smells so funny, its the parafin. The diesel we have today doesnt even smell like diesel and looks more like blue kerosene its so thin. Most fuels have more chemicals in them than petroleum for emissions. The result is they have watered down the thermal efficiency of the fuels. Gasoline has major problems with being hygroscopic and ruining fuel systems on small engines from all the moisture it absorbs.
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Old 07-06-2007, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Home Heating Oil & Diesel Fuel

So, Franz , why the argumentative posture? If you go back to the OP’s first post in the thread, you’ll see this statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jud View Post
...it is just because these two distillates are so similar (and, in some cases, identical) that dye is added to "home heating oil" to differentiate it from the taxed "diesel fuel" used in over-the-road and like applications. This practice is the case in the USA and in Europe.
Jud
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