Roths Industries Garden King Model W 1947/48 (info needed)

[Jeff in PA]

My brother in law Bob ( good guy ) called and asked me to find some info on a 1947/48 Roth's Industries Model W that he's restoring. His late father used to use it in the family garden and he wants to get it going again.

I am looking for pictures or diagrams of the drive pulley pulley system. The drive belt was removed and he's wondering the exact placement. A lever moves the engine and one way makes it go forward and the other reverse.

It's powered by a Wisconsin Model AB engine ( which currently has no compression ) and is a two wheel walking tractor.

So far all the info I've found was a Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roths_Industries

We figured out the date using the about link since it has the 4.50-12 tires on it.

I will try to get down to the farm sometime this week and get pictures.

Thank you very much
Jeff

[Chuck Burlingame]

Hi Jeff There is a good Roths tractor group on Yahoo.I will get some pictures of the drive on my W later this week Chuck

[Jeff in PA]

Thank you Chuck

I tried to join a Yahoo group last night but haven't heard back yet.

[Junkologist]

I had one of these tractors in the past. If I remember right, I believe the engine has a 3 sheave pulley on it and the tractor has a pulley with two sheaves and what looks like a v-belt turned inside out and riveted to it. A drive belt was used on either of the two sheaves for high and low speed, while the inside out belt was brought into engagement with the third sheave on the engine pulley for a friction drive reverse. In other words, the pulleys were moved apart to tighten the belt for forward and brought together for reverse.

[Jeff in PA]

Stopped over at the farm on my way home from work. The engine is running, the lack of compression was caused by a sticky valve. Bob removed the head and lightly tapped on the exhaust valve with the hammer handle and the valve dropped down into place against the seat.

It now starts on the first pull.

Here's the main area on confusion, the handle for forward and reverse. The original chain from the handle bar to the lever was broken and it looks like the other connector piece was made from whatever was handy.


( click for bigger pics )

[Jeff in PA]

Looks pretty good

[Jeff in PA]

Added attachments to the three posts above.

Jeff

[Chuck Burlingame]

Jeff here are pictures of the drive on my W

[Doug Tallman]

Jeff, the handle looks different than mine. The first picture shows the common type of control handle. I did find a patent for a Roth though that showed a handle smilar to the one you pictured. It is in the PDF attachment. Don't know if it shows enough to help you or not. I've never seen one of these styles in person. Doug T

[Jeff in PA]

Thanks to both for the pictures.

I wonder if Chuck has a newer unit that my BIL. The PDF file that Doug posted is the same as Bob's.

[Jeff in PA]

Stoped back at the farm to drop off a copy of the pdf file ( Thanks Doug)

I guessed the spring got attached here.


Now all that is left is figuring out the drive lever system since the original pivot chain was broken and there is a piece of wire where a threaded rod should be between the forward and reverse levers. Pictures of the current ( non working ) setup is the fourth post, first with pictures.

Thanks again for all the help so far, greatly appreciated.
Jeff

[lurecarver]

Jeff,

I just added you to the Roths Industries Yahoo group, sorry for the slow response. Also if you look in the photos section you will be able to find pictures of the drive lever. Under photos there is a album called "Roths Garden King #7401507" with a picture of the lever system. All the tractors that I have seen have the reverse lever (the lever closest to the engine) pointed downward however the patent that Roths filed for shows it pointing upward. Roths may have made them both ways but it probably doesn't matter much to the performance. Please feel free to add all your pictures of you tractor to the photos section of the group.

The drive lever system that you have is the early style which was made from 1945 to around 1947. The later design used the single lever around 1948. Along with the single lever, Roths added a second drive belt and a second tension spring for the engine. These were design to reduce belt slippage when the tractor was subjected to extreme loads.

Do you have a serial number on the tractor or engine? These numbers can be used to narrow down the year that it was manufactured. Also, the group has a database section where you can add your information related to the tractor.

Thanks
Justin
lurecarver_23@yahoo.com

[Jeff in PA]

Justin,
Thanks for accepting me into the Yahoo group.

I went into that picture album and found this photo


If this is your Model W, could you get me measurements of the chain and also the length of the short rod ( center to center )

Thanks again
Jeff

[lurecarver]

Jeff,

Yes that is a picture of my Garden King and the measurements are as follows.

Short Reverse Rod (Center to Center): 7 1/2"
Chain: 5 1/2"

The bends on each end of the rod are about an 1" long, so the total length should be around 9 1/2". Hope this helps.

Regards
Justin

[Jeff in PA]

Justin,
Thank you VERY much for the measurements. That was the last piece that kept the Model W from moving ( safely ).

I'll be down at the farm on sunday and I'll get serial numbers then.

Thanks again
Jeff

[Jeff in PA]

Originally Posted by lurecarver

Jeff,

I just added you to the Roths Industries Yahoo group, sorry for the slow response. Also if you look in the photos section you will be able to find pictures of the drive lever. Under photos there is a album called "Roths Garden King #7401507" with a picture of the lever system. All the tractors that I have seen have the reverse lever (the lever closest to the engine) pointed downward however the patent that Roths filed for shows it pointing upward. Roths may have made them both ways but it probably doesn't matter much to the performance. Please feel free to add all your pictures of you tractor to the photos section of the group.

The drive lever system that you have is the early style which was made from 1945 to around 1947. The later design used the single lever around 1948. Along with the single lever, Roths added a second drive belt and a second tension spring for the engine. These were design to reduce belt slippage when the tractor was subjected to extreme loads.

Do you have a serial number on the tractor or engine? These numbers can be used to narrow down the year that it was manufactured. Also, the group has a database section where you can add your information related to the tractor.

Thanks
Justin
lurecarver_23@yahoo.com

Hi Justin,
Just got back from the farm and have both the serial number of the Roth Model W and of the Wisconsin Model AB engine.





The serial number of the Roths Model W is 7400889 and for the Model AB is 805884.

I'll make up a rod tomorrow at work and I should have pictures of it working in the garden later this week ( unless it's raining )

Thanks again,
Greatly appreciated.
Jeff

[Jeff in PA]

Justin
I also added almost all of my pictures onto the Roths Industries Yahoo Group. As soon as they're approved, they'll be up for viewing. ( the only ones not one are the incorrect lever placement ones )

If you're the mod there, remove the word "serial" from the title so the entire serial number shows in th etitle.

Jeff

[lurecarver]

Jeff,

Just some other information, based on the engine serial number, the engine was built in early, January or February, of 1947. Let us know how the drive lever is coming.

Thanks
Justin