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Blacksmithing and Metallurgy Hand-wrought manufacture of metal objects, extracting metals from their ores, or purifying metals and casting useful items from the metals.

Blacksmithing and Metallurgy

Hammering Saw Blades


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  #1  
Old 02-03-2012, 04:40 PM
heins heins is offline
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Default Hammering Saw Blades

I saw this ad about hammering saw blades and thought some one might be interested.

Rice Blaksmith Saw and Machine
Rice, Minn
877 224 5251
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:41 PM
Pat Barrett Pat Barrett is offline
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

I didn't go to the site, but, I sell supplies to industry, and down here, the pine tree is king. Been in many saw rooms. It's quite interesting. A good saw filer knows how to "tension" a saw, meaning that the saw on the mandrel, looks limp until its' spun up and then, it's straight, when the saw starts thru a log. The saw teeth are also swedged and sharpened and then checked with a tool, this eliminates those washboard gouges in a sawed piece of lumber. (One or more teeth thicker that others, making washboard in the side of the cut.) After many usages the saw must be hammered to restore the proper set in the saw. A Gauge is used every 3 inches of the saw, from the center to the outer edge to check for alignment. Then the spots low or high are marked with chalk and hammered out. It's a process that is interesting to watch and learn from. If the saw is not properly tensioned and the teeth are not even it will look like it came from a well used not maintained mill. Make a lot of sawdust and lumber wash boarded and different thickness from end to end. Of course a planer takes out the imperfections but you want boards and not saw dust.
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Old 02-04-2012, 01:31 AM
JIMnWV JIMnWV is offline
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

I have a 52" blade on the frick Dad and I just bought, I need to get it hammered but I have to get the speed figured out first, I would like to run around 500 rpm but I need to get a pulley on the engine first.

Jim
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:47 AM
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OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

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Originally Posted by Pat Barrett View Post
... After many usages the saw must be hammered to restore the proper set in the saw. A Gauge is used every 3 inches of the saw, from the center to the outer edge to check for alignment. Then the spots low or high are marked with chalk and hammered out. It's a process that is interesting to watch and learn from...
I hadn't heard of THAT method.

Only way I had ever heard of was using patterns with different diameter circles marked for hammering for different RPMs. Though I suppose a badly warped or bent blade would need to be straightened before 'Hammering' to run true at the RPM it's "Hammered" for, and I can see where the straight edge would come into play there. I believe there are also different patterns for left hand and right hand blades, or maybe the same patterns, but switched to the opposite sides of the blade. Saw blades flop around pretty good until you get them up to speed, and then they should stand up straight.

The different patterns used will get them to stand up at 450RPM or 475RPM or 500RPM or whatever speed your mill is set to run at. I'm guessing there are probably different patterns for different diameter blades and different gages.

A good blade should run a long time without needing to be hammered again, but if it gets hot from rubbing and warps it a little, then it won't run true at the specified RPM anymore and needs to be hammered. Dull teeth, having the 'Lead' set wrong, hot running bearings, or having a log pinch the blade and bring it to a stop can all over heat a blade and change the tension in it.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:03 PM
randyt randyt is offline
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

I don't know if I mentioned it before but I ended up with my granddads saw hammering bench and tools. I know almost next to nothing about hammering a saw but he did teach me how to sharpen, set and gum buzz saws. I have his sawgummer too. Saw hammering is interesting and even though my brother in laws and I have a 01 frick saw mill I don't think I'll ever tackle hammering a saw blade.
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:10 PM
LundMachineWorks LundMachineWorks is offline
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

The Rice saw shop has given the Minnesota Steam Engine Association a saw hammer demonstration several times. It is a very interesting demonstration, and an art with many years of practice required.

If you need a blade hammered I would definitely recommend them.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

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Originally Posted by randyt View Post
I don't know if I mentioned it before but I ended up with my granddads saw hammering bench and tools. I know almost next to nothing about hammering a saw but he did teach me how to sharpen, set and gum buzz saws. I have his sawgummer too. Saw hammering is interesting and even though my brother in laws and I have a 01 frick saw mill I don't think I'll ever tackle hammering a saw blade.
Any chance of posting a picture (or 2 or 3) of your granddads bench and all the tools that go with it ?
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:42 PM
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Ken Majeski Ken Majeski is offline
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

I've watched the demonstration at Rice a couple times and some other saws being hammered as well as pounding on a couple myself.

About the best I have ever seen was at Blue River Wi. about 30 years ago. This guy Really had a handle on things. He would hammer most saws while you waited if you were from a distance away. He would spend more time wiping saw oil on his hair than hammering.

I believe his name was Harvey Hendrix. You could see that he was wasting time to make you think you were getting your moneys worth.

From my experience some guys are better hammering saws at a certain speed than other speeds. Likely due to more experience at common higher speeds used in most mills with electric power.

What surprised me at Rice the last time was that he used a Common hammer instead of the cross face that others used.

If a saw is repeatedly heated the middle usually gets Bigger and this requires hammering the outside of the saw get the tension in the ballpark for the speed being used.

If a saw has been used a Lot without being heated a lot it will usually lose tension and that will require hammering in the center area to increase tension to get it right for the speed being used.

There is No Correct method for all saws. Each has to be hammered on a case by case basis depending on how they were treated and whats wrong with them.

You can tell a Lot about a saw by standing it on edge and giving it a few quick shakes and by seeing which way it is dished. All millsaws at rest should lean toward the log as it passes by. High speed saws will actually have some dish to them where low speed saws will appear flat on the log side and slightly crowned on the off side. Most Good mill saws are one gauge thicker in the middle than on the outside.
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Last edited by Ken Majeski; 03-18-2012 at 08:48 PM. Reason: Add more
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

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Originally Posted by OTTO-Sawyer View Post
Any chance of posting a picture (or 2 or 3) of your granddads bench and all the tools that go with it ?
It will take a day or so but I'll take a few photos and post them up.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

I got a chance and went to the barn and take a few photos.

the bench


hammers



more hammers


saw gummer and in the back ground is a knife sharpener
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

In the first hammer picture the one in the middle with the redish handle is a Cross Faced hammer.

The goofy looking ones with the pear shaped head and the off center handles are Dog Faced Hammers.
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:42 PM
Jeff W B Jeff W B is offline
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

Here is my saw tensioning tools
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:46 PM
Jeff W B Jeff W B is offline
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

This is an adjustable Tension gauge.
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There is a wedge in the middle of it that will push the middle of the straight edge down to get the right dish in the saw.
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:59 PM
Jeff W B Jeff W B is offline
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

Here is another view of the gauge.
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Old 06-22-2013, 08:03 PM
shakeyjake36 shakeyjake36 is offline
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

If somebody needs a saw hammered or even made, I highly recommend B.H. Paine in East Point, GA. I took a tour of their shop, it was interesting to see that although they have cnc, they still depend on the 100+ year old belt driven tools.

The saw "gullets" are punched on a press that was imported in the late 1800s. Do to the metal composition of saw material, modern tools produce too much heat, and heat is the worst thing for a saw. This monster press has a neat story, it fell off the boat but was too valuable , so it was brought up and been in service ever since.

Sometimes the master saw smith will use hydraulic rollers to take a bad" hump" out of a saw, but mostly hand hammers a simple gauges. As was said before, hammering is an art and no two saws are the same. It's too bad there aren't more books about this subject . I would love to learn as skill like hammering.
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Old 06-22-2013, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: Hammering Saw Blades

I guess that's another place to my "Bucket List" of places to TRY to get to some day if/when I'm able to travel. I'd LOVE to take a tour of that place and talk with the people there.


Sorry I missed that last 'thread bump' last year..... I would have hit the Thanks Button on Jeffs saw tool pictures. If Jeff sees this thread again, I hope he sees my THANK YOU here for posting them.
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