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Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put


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  #21  
Old 03-20-2012, 05:40 PM
LWB250 LWB250 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

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Originally Posted by flwcwaterman View Post
Hi All
I just had a look at it and the volt to the led 3B and 5B was 1.3volts. So next I tested the led board this was.

"Check the LED out of the circuit with a VOM for continuity. It should conduct one direction and not the other (it's a diode.) If it is open circuited or conducts in both directions, it's bad".

So It must be the Board.
Not sure I understand what transpired here. Did you check the LED with a VOM out of the circuit?

If it's good, you would expect to see a 1.5 VDC drop across it. That's normal.

I'm not being critical, but you sound clueless about what's going on here. Are you really sure you want to work on this? If you don't know what's going on, you risk severe damage to the generator and potentially yourself.

Without physically being there, I would say the first thing you need to do would be to get the engine running at 1800 RPM or thereabouts, depending on whether it's got a mechanical (droop) governor, or an electronic (isochronous) governor.

If this is a dry fuel set, that is, LP or natural gas, you need to have a competent fuel system person check things out, especially if you don't have the knowledge or tools to properly test the system. Any idea what a manometer is?

Until you have the engine running at the proper speed, the generator is irrelevant.

Don't take this as being harsh, it's just that you don't come across as being confident about what you're doing, and if that's the case, you're going to end up replacing a lot of parts unnecessarily, or worse, getting hurt.

Dan
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:55 PM
Isaac-1 Isaac-1 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

power should be nearly instant (a fraction of a second), you may have some new safety shutdown happening, overvoltage perhaps if your had that option. The various safety shutdowns are either instant or delayed, did you get any fault lights?

Ike
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  #23  
Old 03-20-2012, 08:13 PM
LWB250 LWB250 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

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Originally Posted by flwcwaterman View Post
Hi All
I am still at it. I changed the led and now the motor runs for 3sec and then reeves up and then shut down. So I am not shore it was the led, but now something new is going on. When does the power come on? Does it have to be at full reeves to put out volts? Could it be low presser on the incoming gas (psg) is there a gas regulator presser valve to shut it down it low gas presser. Just shooting from the hip. "Help" from Frank
As I dwell on your earlier comments, I would suggest that you shut off the safeguard breaker (three pole breaker on the side of the junction box facing forward) and see if the unit will start and run. Depending on the model of controller (I haven't looked that closely to see which iteration of DEC-III you have) the unit will run for at least 30 seconds before shutting down on an overcrank or auxiliary fault due to a lack of output voltage.

Watch the voltmeter when you start it up - if it pegs, shut the unit off immediately.

Also, NEVER, EVER start up the generator with the photo coupling open or uncovered, unless you are testing. The potential for the generator going full field and possibly damaging itself is very real should bright lights or sunlight be shining on or around the photo coupling.

Dan
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2012, 10:24 PM
flwcwaterman flwcwaterman is offline
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

Okay Starting from the top. I can get throw this with some help (I am more than handy). It has about 10 hour on it and maybe it never ran fron the start. So here we go. When I put the switch in the run position on the Maker 3 controller (16 light) 20RZ82 it started ran at idle but no output of power with load or no load for 10 to 20 minutes with a auxiliary fault on the panel. So then I did the flashlight test. 3.) With safeguard breaker closed, startup generator and shine a flashlight (briefly!) on the phototransistor on the end of the rotor shaft. Voltage should peak and make the voltmeter go full scale. Yes I did this and the output voltage went up put the rpm was the same (Idle). So then I did focus on is the LED and voltage regulator. Here's what's next:

1.) Make sure that B+ (+12VDC) is getting to the regulator when the unit is running. B+ comes from the controller, goes through a single set of contacts on the safeguard breaker, and then into the voltage regulator. Yes this was good.
2) Flashlight test is good measure the voltage at 3B+ and 5B- at the LED board. It should be 1-2 VDC. It should drop when the flashlight is applied. This is done running or course. Yes it was 1.3VDC so the I went to step 3.
3.) Check the LED out of the circuit with a VOM for continuity. It should conduct one direction and not the other (it's a diode.) If it is open circuited or conducts in both directions, it's bad. It was open in both directions so I put a new one in.
Now it starts up then in 3 sec the rpm steps up to full speed then shuts down.
I would say the first thing you need to do would be to get the engine running at 1800 RPM or thereabouts, depending on whether it's got a mechanical (droop) governor, or an electronic (isochronous) governor. How would you move the RPMs up?
As for the natural gas. It has a gas valve and on the t it has a (pressure valve?) Too. If you have any suggestion I would be glad to take it. Thanks just looking for help, but I may sound clueless.

---------- Post added at 10:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 PM ----------

Dan You say that shut off the safeguard breaker it should start? the unit will run for at least 30 seconds before shutting down on an overcrank or auxiliary fault due to a lack of output voltage. Is that good or bad

Watch the voltmeter when you start it up - if it pegs, shut the unit off immediately.
What does this do. Should it run at idle. Where to I go from there. Thanks
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  #25  
Old 03-21-2012, 07:38 AM
LWB250 LWB250 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

Initially it sounds like you did in fact have a bad LED.

First of all, there is no "idle" on a stationary standby generator set. They run at a constant speed of 1800 RPM. WHen the unit starts, it should immediately come up to speed and stay there. If you attempt to run it at a greatly reduced speed it will damage the generator.

With the safeguard breaker off and the engine running, you should get an Auxiliary fault. This indicates that there is no voltage being produced by the generator. This tells me that the controller and generator are working correctly at this point.

While the generator is running, close the safeguard breaker and report back what happens. If the generator is working correctly, it should come up to voltage and stay there.

One thing at a time. If you're all over this doing a bunch of different things at once you'll never be able to nail down what the problem is. You need to focus on one area and make sure it's working so you can eliminate it from the potential list of problems.

Dan
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  #26  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:20 PM
flwcwaterman flwcwaterman is offline
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

Okay, here we go.

A) First I put the safe guard breaker in the off position. Then started it up in the run position and it ran for 10 min at low rpm. Then I put safe guard breaker in the on position (running) and then in 30 sec the rpm when full and shut down. So I just wanted to try it again but this time it did something different.

B) I put safe guard breaker in the off position. Then started it up in the run position and then in 60 sec then rpm when full and shut down and no volts were seen on the panel when the rpm went up.

C) I put safe guard breaker in the off position. Then started it up in the run position (low rpm)and then in I put safe guard breaker in the on position and then in 60 sec the rpm when full and shut down and voltmeter spiked up on the panel when the rpm went up before shutting down.



Auxiliary fault the hole time
I don’t know why the first time it ran for 10min. Temp was about 160.

Any info would be help full Thanks for being there for me from Frank
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  #27  
Old 03-21-2012, 07:32 PM
LWB250 LWB250 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

What is "low RPM?" The unit should be running at the same speed (1800 RPM) regardless of what's going on.

Look at the frequency meter when it is producing output. It should be at or near 60Hz.

Dan
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  #28  
Old 03-21-2012, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

Hi Dan
As the rpm stepup before it shuts down it reads 60hz.
It posible that when I say it is at idle it could be 1800rpm.

We have a nother generator but smaller (Guardian 0047220) and it work great but it seems to run at a higher rpm.

Why would the kohler generator just step up the rpm. what did you mak of the safegarud being off and still stepping the rpm up?
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  #29  
Old 03-21-2012, 10:07 PM
Daverepair Daverepair is offline
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

When it starts watch the volt meter. Is it going to full voltage(overvoltage) for the 3 seconds then shutting down. This just popped into my head as the first thing I would check.

I just reread your post. Sounds like the regulator is coming on and full fielding, stuck on full voltage output. I believe the reving up is when the regulator shuts off and the load against the engine goes away.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

Okay here we go. (1Test) when running the Hz is at 46 and the 65v amp at 0. (2Test) volts are going up after rpms step up. I might have two separate problems. But with it safeguard breaker off the reg should not be part of the rpm stepping up?? As for no 60 Hz were does that come in??
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  #31  
Old 03-27-2012, 03:38 PM
Isaac-1 Isaac-1 is offline
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

60 Hz come from the engine speed, which should be a steady 1800 RPM from start up to shutdown (well give it maybe 3-5 seconds to come up to speed on start up). Just be aware many, particularly many cheaper multimeters that have a Hz function get confused by the wave form on a generator with no load on it and will give crazy readings like 300 Hz for a generator really running at a correct 60 Hz. Surprisingly the trustly little $20 plug in Kill-A-Watt P4400 meters do very good at showing correct frequencies (be aware some of the fancier Kill-A-Watt meters do not have Hz function). Until you get the engine running right there is no sense worrying about the generator end.

Ike
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  #32  
Old 03-27-2012, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

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Originally Posted by LWB250 View Post
What is "low RPM?" The unit should be running at the same speed (1800 RPM) regardless of what's going on.

Look at the frequency meter when it is producing output. It should be at or near 60Hz.

Dan
As mentioned in a previous post, the freq meter should be at or around 60Hz. This equates to 1800 RPM.

If the engine is not at 1800 RPM the voltage will not be accurate. Get the unit running at 1800 RPM/60Hz before you attempt anything else.

Dan
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  #33  
Old 03-31-2012, 10:16 AM
flwcwaterman flwcwaterman is offline
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

What controls the rpm to 1800? Is it the linkage on the carb? Or is there a set screw on the regulator?

Thanks.

This my sound crazy could it be set up at 50hz???
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  #34  
Old 03-31-2012, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

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Originally Posted by flwcwaterman View Post
What controls the rpm to 1800? Is it the linkage on the carb? Or is there a set screw on the regulator?

Thanks.

This my sound crazy could it be set up at 50hz???
Depends.

It probably has an electronic governor. Look around the mixer (carburetor) for some linkage and follow it to the actuator. Follow the wires from the actuator to the governor controller.

If it has an electronic governor, there are any number of reasons why it might not be coming up to speed, the obvious one being that the speed adjustment has been disturbed.

If it's a droop (mechanical) governor, it will have a belt driven governor on the front of the engine, and this is set through an adjustment screw. Mechanical governors will "droop' as load is increased, so they are typically set at 1860-1890 (62Hz-63Hz) at no load, and as the load increases the speed drops or "droops" to 60Hz at full load.

If your unit shipped from the factory for 50Hz operation it would have an "F" in the model code. Also, the alternator could be different and the meter package would be different, too.

It's remotely possible that some idiot turned it down to achieve 50Hz operation, but that opens ups real can of worms if you don't know what you're doing.

Get the speed up to 1800 or thereabouts and we'll go from there. Nothing will be right until it's running at the proper speed.

Dan
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  #35  
Old 04-03-2012, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

Okay it’s not running at 1800. If I slightly push the actuator the rpm go and the Hz too. Then the actuator pushes all the way by itself and shuts down (over Speed), so something is not telling the actuator to move?? It has an actuator two wires. I turned the 60 Hz aj on the regulator and nothing happen thinking the rpm comes from there??? Then it has a Barbea Colman not shore how to turn that up has gain and speed blue rectangle small screw still nothing?? Any help??
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  #36  
Old 04-03-2012, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

Frequency (Hz) and speed have a direct relationship in generators. In this case, we are dealing with a four pole 60 Hz generator, so the speed at 60 Hz will be 1800 RPM.

Sounds like you have a governor issue. A number of things to check, but I am at lunch right now and typing on a tablet.

When I get home tonight I will give you some direction as to what to check.

Dan
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

Thank

I could email some photo of controller. this is driving me crazy it only has 10 hours on it.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

Can iyou tell me about the mag pickup? ??I know it has two wires to it when fly wheel is turning does it close the two wire like a switch constent and tells the speed controll to run??? maybe there is somthing wrong with the mag pickup ?? dirt, rust? how far is it threaded in so if I remove it I put it back in the same spot? Thanks
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:27 PM
Daverepair Daverepair is offline
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

Mag pickup. Basically it works as you stated. While cranking you should be able to read about 1.5+ vac on the two wires coming out of it disconnected from the governor. Turn off fuel so it can't start. Adjustment. Remove the pickup and inspect the end should be a metal set in insulation plastic. Clean off any metal shavings. Look in the hole it came out of. may need a mirror to do this. Move the engine to center a ring gear tooth in the hole. Re install the mag pickup until it just touches that tooth. Make sure the lock nut is not hitting. Back out about 3/4 of a turn and lock it there. Check cranking voltage. Now you said you turned the gain and other pots on the governor. Did you keep track of where they were. What pots do you have and what are they labeled. Should be speed, gain, maybe one called INTG (intiger) I think. Gain is like the opposite of stability, how hard the governor reacts, speed is speed. See what happens with gain in the middle and speed at 1/3 of full.

My bad, the mag pickup is a speed signal. it counts the flywheel teeth basically. sends an AC pulse to the governor

Barber coleman info http://www.fileswap.com/folder/LhCaBuQw/
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Kohler Generator 20RZ no out put

Yes I marked the pot that I moved one on the reg board 60HZ and on the speed board Barbea colman I moved the gain and there was a blue thing for speed that had a small screw but I think it just keeps a cover on it? There was no INTG. I get how to check the 1.5+ vac on the two wires coming out of it disconnected from the governor. But is there a way to test the mag pickup? Do you think if the mag pickup is dirty with metal it would not let the speed controller work??

Speed controler
http://www.fileswap.com/dl/rWhijpSMz...o_(2).pdf.html
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