Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Articles] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Chat] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] - [Tools]

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Generators & Motors General Discussion > Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.)
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.) Restoring, maintaining and operating Generac generators.

Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.)

Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start


Hi All, hoping someone can help. I am working on my parents fullhouse standby generator, I am told...

this thread has 26 replies and has been viewed 3828 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:07 AM
byrone byrone is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WS, North Carolina
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Hi All,

hoping someone can help. I am working on my parents fullhouse standby generator, I am told it is 20kW, but have no documentation. It is propane. Last ran a year ago. The "local" Caterpillar dealer seems to hold the keys to this thing and last time they showed up, relieved my parents of $5k...

Does anyone have wiring diagram, diagnostic and service manuals (any other manuals) for this genset? I am reasonably familiar with generators, quite familiar with engines and have gone as far as I can without spending long hours tracing wires and guessing a bit. The engine won't start, it catches a bit and then stops, catches and stops but won't crank. If I bypass the panel and use a remote starter switch on the solenoid, the engine cranks perfectly but won't start. There is no spark. There are no error lights on the panel, although my father says the high temp light was on when he last tried to start it. There are 3 sensors in the thermostat housing that were all disconnected, two of the are tied together. Reconnecting them did not help.

Possible lightning strike as that is what is listed on the last service call receipt from 5 yrs ago when they just replaced all the boards. there is no evidence of frayed or broken wiring or burnt components.

This is a GM 3.0L 4 cylinder engine.

Thanks,
Byron
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_0904.JPG   IMG_0908.JPG  
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 11-03-2012, 07:29 PM
Daverepair Daverepair is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Plymouth, Massachusetts
Posts: 774
Thanks: 37
Thanked 358 Times in 231 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

If you can post some pictures of the control panel inside and out I may have a manual. Pictures of the whole unit would also help.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-04-2012, 12:29 AM
EricWood's Avatar
EricWood EricWood is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Concord, Minnesota USA
Posts: 1,502
Thanks: 178
Thanked 937 Times in 522 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

The 3.0L GM is used by several OEM's. Simple engine, has conventional distributor spark ignition. Check the simple stuff. I know you said no spark, but make sure its getting gas up to the mixer too.

Is the coil getting power during cranking? If so, may be the ignition module in the distributor. Seem to remember changing out alot of those back in the first generation GM HEI ignition days.

When you say it catches for a bit and stops, is it doing it for the same length every time; ie, possibly just going through the crank-rest cycles that would eventually give you an "overcrank" alarm. Or, is it just barely cranking, sounds like its going to start, then stops as soon as it sounds like its firing off?


eric
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-04-2012, 11:20 PM
byrone byrone is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WS, North Carolina
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Hi Eric,

On cranking, it never gets to the crank-rest cycle. Just catches momentarily, then gives up, then catches momentarily (like a half second or so) then gives up. It is an older analog panel with dial gauges but separate coolant temp, oil pressure, over rank error lights if that helps. I unfortunately did not take pics of the panel itself. No error lights are lit and hitting the test-reset button briefly lights them all, so that part works. The cranking does not sound like a typical car starter system failure like a dead battery or bad solenoid, so I suspect the Generac control circuitry to be the issue, not the engine controller, so I did not go further testing for power to the fuel valve and ign module, etc. because I couldn't get it to even crank. I hooked up an automotive remote starter switch to the solenoid terminal and the engine cranks fine and long time, verifying the solenoid and battery are good. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Byron

---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 PM ----------

Hi Dave,

Sorry I did not think to take those pics. I will next time I am at the generator but it's a good hour and half drive up there, so hopefully I'll be able to do more good than harm next time I see it. It is an older 1997 control panel with red error lights, 6 or so, separate for water temp, over crank, oil pressure, etc. the auto-manual-off and start switches are metal toggles. It has dial gauges for v, a, and f. On the inside there is a single pub and a stepper motor governor control and the voltage reg . I think if I can get it to crank first, I can start to work on the engine controller itself, but something in the Generac logic is preventing cranking. The diagnostic manuals I have read for similar gens all point to the usual suspects: corroded terminals, bad battery, bad solenoid (contactor)' bad use, etc. but those have all checked out fine. I think the wiring diagram is my best hope...

Thanks,
Byron
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-05-2012, 01:16 AM
byrone byrone is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WS, North Carolina
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Dave,

my generator panel looks almost exactly like this one, except for the warning lights on the right hand side (mine only has the low temp light). Here is an almost identical generator on ebay right now. http://ebay.com/itm/25-KW-GENERAC-LP-NATURAL-GAS-GENERATOR-ONLY-61-HOURS-/310493239422

Thanks,
Byron
Attached Thumbnails
similar 1995 control panel.jpg   similar 1998 control panel.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-05-2012, 09:14 AM
EricWood's Avatar
EricWood EricWood is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Concord, Minnesota USA
Posts: 1,502
Thanks: 178
Thanked 937 Times in 522 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Here's something else to check; If the starter is still engaged when it stops cranking, check your rpm sensor and wiring. It's the magnetic pick up (MPU) device centered over the fly wheel teeth. The connectors I have had issue with before. Check that, and using a multimeter set up to read low AC volts, check the output of that MPU...should be a small AC voltage, but should be around .4 to .6 volts at cranking speed. Follow your MPU harness wire to the control panel, and measure for the volts there. Ohms readings on the MPU are approx 130 for the old style MPU with a connector plug, and 1000 ohms for the newer style with molded cable plug attached to it.

eric
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to EricWood:
  #7  
Old 11-05-2012, 09:34 AM
byrone byrone is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WS, North Carolina
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Thanks Eric,
I will check that. I was also wondering if maybe the controller is not getting stable voltage +12? It seems that maybe it gets its voltage from the voltage regulator, not strait from the battery?

Thx,
Byron
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-05-2012, 11:07 AM
Daverepair Daverepair is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Plymouth, Massachusetts
Posts: 774
Thanks: 37
Thanked 358 Times in 231 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Looks like a C panel. See if these help.

http://www.fileswap.com/dl/eGEhpin5a...as_gm.pdf.html
http://www.fileswap.com/dl/CvQhdc6ZGn/C_Panel.pdf.html

Just click the slow download button and post if it works
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Daverepair:
  #9  
Old 11-05-2012, 12:57 PM
Fred M. Fred M. is online now
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Titusville, Florida, U.S.
Posts: 645
Thanks: 23
Thanked 119 Times in 116 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Dave-

Both links worked for me. I have a relatively slow connection, so the downloads were about as fast as normal.

Fred
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-05-2012, 05:11 PM
byrone byrone is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WS, North Carolina
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Dave,
Thanks - this will keep me busy for a while. Both links worked.

Best,
Byron
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-05-2012, 09:52 PM
Douglas123 Douglas123 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 419
Thanks: 137
Thanked 144 Times in 109 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

definitely look at the schematic for 12vdc gas unit only. B+ has nothing to do with the voltage regulator as far as running the unit. Look for wire #14 which is b+ control. Could possibly have bad control board. There are two relays on the board. one is crank and the other is run. Let us know if you have the newer or older board in your unit Newer board is 83089 older board is 67 something. Had a long day. You do have the option C-panel. While checking Mag pick up wires 79/0 you must have at least .52vac or the unit will not run. Check your fuse holder also. Sometimes during cranking or running you can momentarily loose main B+ and unit will shut off.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-06-2012, 01:00 AM
byrone byrone is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WS, North Carolina
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Dave,

thanks for the manuals - this is indeed the controller I am working with - very helpful.

What I need now is the wiring diagram for the complete genset showing the interconnects from the C controller terminal strips to the GM 3.0 engine and listing the various circuit names (like circuit 14 = regulated voltage, etc.). Diagnostic routines for the PCB and VR and such would also be useful as would the owners manual for the complete genset so I can order up all the filters, plugs, etc while I'm at it and do the preventive maintenance.

Do you have these manuals too?

Thanks,
Byron

Sorry Douglas,
my browser did not refresh before my last post so I missed your comments. I will definitely check those points for voltage and get the board revision. Is circuit #14 B+ input to the controller or output from the controller. The controller is PCB1 in the schematic I believe.
Thx,
Byron

I'm assuming I'm not going to get any AC voltage off of the MPU until the engine is at least cranking - is that correct? I can not even get it to crank right now, it just catches and quits, catches and quits. By catch I mean less than a second. So if the controller is sending out the signal to the starter solenoid to crank the engine, then either something is bad on the controller or it is getting insufficient power? (since I can crank the engine by jumpering the solenoid)

Thanks,
Byron
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-06-2012, 01:06 AM
Douglas123 Douglas123 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Memphis, Tennessee
Posts: 419
Thanks: 137
Thanked 144 Times in 109 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Wire # 14 is your B+ to supply fuel lockoff, ignition, power to engine gauges. Look close at the schematic and find F1 fuse on main contol panel front and center. B+ starts there.Reading a schematic is like reading a road map. Yes PCB1 is the contoller and need to know which board you have. Very busy during the week but will get you some detailed info soon. Send pm with address and I will send the info tomorrow or next day depending on what flys
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-06-2012, 11:53 PM
byrone byrone is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WS, North Carolina
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Douglas, Dave,

here are some pics - looks like I have the 83089 Controller board Rev P

thanks,
Byron
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_0939.JPG   IMG_0943.JPG   IMG_0956.JPG   IMG_0924.JPG  
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-06-2012, 11:56 PM
byrone byrone is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WS, North Carolina
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

More pics.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_0920.JPG   IMG_0922.JPG   IMG_0935.JPG  
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-09-2012, 05:40 PM
byrone byrone is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WS, North Carolina
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Hi All,
I'm going to spend some quality time with the generator this weekend. Thanks to Dave and Doug, I've got the diagnostic routines all laid out, so I should know the failed part by Sunday.

I'd like to do all the general maintenance on the genset too while I'm there, at least change the oil and filters and coolant and hoses, since that surely has not been done in a looong time.

If anyone has access to the owners manual, I'd appreciate it. I've found owners manuals for other Generac generators that list thes parts out, or I suppose I can go to a Generac dealer, or if anyone has a favorite place to order parts online, please let me know - wouldn't make it for this weekend of course - I was hoping to crossreference to whatever parts store standard part #'s I can get at O'reilly or Autozone.

Thanks,
Byron
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-12-2012, 12:21 PM
byrone byrone is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WS, North Carolina
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

I ran through the diagnostic routines on this generator over the weekend. Oil press switch is ok, RPM sensor is OK, voltage to controller is OK. if I jumper circuit 15 to 14 everything turns on and lights up. then a quick jumper to 56 and the engine starts and runs fine. Auto-manual and start-stop switch and wiring are ok. If I simulate a fault by grounding the coolant sensor or oil pressure switch wires, no panel lamps come on.

So it seems the control board is bad - I pulled it out and can't see any obvious errors without poking through the circuits. Is replacement of the board the best way to go or can these be repaired? Where's the best place to buy parts? It's an 83089 RevP board.

Thx,
Byron
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-12-2012, 01:00 PM
Bassplayer1985 Bassplayer1985 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Southwestern Connecticut
Posts: 967
Thanks: 140
Thanked 311 Times in 242 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Bryon, That SCB looks to be serviceable, but requires a good know how in electronics and if at all possible a schematic which I'm sure will be near impossible to get. The resistors, SCR's and transistors would be easy enough to test out of circuit, but the IC's there, not so easy. Without a schematic of what the circuit is doing, even with a logic probe you can't tell if the signals you are getting are correct.

DAMN! that board is well over $400 bones! If you can read the numbers/markings on each of the parts, a shotgun approach replacing the parts may work but will take forever to fix. Parts wise Can't be anymore than $50 bucks total worth of components on there. Mouser.com or Digikey.com would be the best place to get components from.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-12-2012, 07:42 PM
DPeterik DPeterik is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
Posts: 74
Thanks: 9
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

byrone,

Contact me at dpxholdings@msn.com. I can give you a list of suppliers for these boards.

Thanks
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-14-2012, 09:37 AM
byrone byrone is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WS, North Carolina
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Generac (Olympian) 97A 03730 S Manuals - No Start

Bassplayer,

yeah, overpriced parts from Generac. The board itself is not all that complex with mostly discrete components but it has enough parts on it that unless there are some known common failure modes like specific resistors or diodes that burn, it would probably take more time to poke through end-to-end with a probe than it is worth, even at $400...sigh.

Thanks,
Byron

Dave,

thanks. I sent you an email to your address listed.

Best,
Byron
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Generac SD30 information and manuals suiteskull Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.) 20 07-16-2014 03:20 PM
Generac GP5500 won't start Medusa Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.) 25 01-11-2013 11:08 PM
Olympian Generator 30KW won't start leehaefele Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets 22 12-15-2011 12:00 PM
Olympian/Generac 15kw manuals & parts ziegler Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.) 7 11-15-2011 04:55 PM
Generac 35KW Unit - Looking for Manuals Pmedicwally Generac Generators (SEARS, etc.) 4 06-01-2010 03:36 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:14 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark
A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2014 by Harry Matthews
P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277