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How to plumb an Onan BGA to propane


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  #1  
Old 11-04-2012, 10:51 AM
Kenny78 Kenny78 is offline
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Default How to plumb an Onan BGA to propane

Hi all, this forum has been a horrible influence on me, I can't stop tinkering with my BGA.LOL Anyways I have it mounted ona portable steel sled, converted to dual fuel(hopefully) I do know that it still runs properly on gasoline. I'll try to get pics soon

I am in the process of installing propane to my house and have hit a snag. The propane guy that I bouhght my tank from wont set the tank until I have my line run and "appliances" set. I planned on setting my generator on an existing concrete pad that I hope to be my battery room/gen shed.

What my question is: from my 1/4npt 12v solenoid how do I connect the generator to the yard line? I plan to ha a three valve manifold beside the concrete with one valve for the gen. Do I need a drip leg? Can I use the yellow flexible gas line to go from gen to shut off valve? I just need this one "appliance" so that I can receive the 250 gallon tank I purchased a couple months ago.

Thanks in advance
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:32 AM
John Ward John Ward is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

You will also need to provide an email address capable of handling large files.
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:37 AM
Ed Sparks Ed Sparks is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

Not sure what you mean by" flexible yellow line"
If you send me your e-mail address , I'll send you Onan t-015 gaseous fuels manual which details how to install properly.

Normally I run a high pressure reg at the tank, 1/2' copper line buried in plastic conduit to gen location. Then to a second stage regulator to bring pressure down to 11" water column. From there with 3/4 " blck pipe with a drip leg to manual shut off gas valve, to dry fuel filter trap and then to 12 volt solenoid before going to Garrettson KN demand regulator.to carb by flexible fuel hose rated for propane & vacuum. The KN senses vacuum when the engine turns over allowing gas to flow to carb.

US carburration is a good source for components.
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:45 AM
Lawdawg Lawdawg is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

Ed
I think the Flexible line he is talking about is the Yellow Plastic Pipe in Rolls that is made for Gas Lines (NG/LP) is run from the meter to the Service Entrance of the Home then Plumbed to what ever Appliances that need the (NG/LP). Doug.
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2012, 11:52 AM
Ed Sparks Ed Sparks is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

If thats the case it will not meet code in many places. There have been many issues with the plastic line.
There is a copper tubing with a yellow plastic corrosion coating jacket for burial that is AGA approved.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:52 PM
Kenny78 Kenny78 is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

On the manual, my email address is kencohenour@sbcglobal.net

I should have been more clear. I spudded in the Nikki carb like bobbyz, and ran 2' lp rated hose to a kn with a load block, to my 1/4 NPt 12v solenoid. I purchased the kn, hose,load block and solenoid from ping technologies. By flexible line I meant the appliance connector like I have used on my ng hot water heater in my old home, I think it's corrugated metal with flare fittings on either side. I previously talked to the propane guy and if I am not mistaken he is supplying a dual stage regulator at tank to produce 11" water column. If not, I do have a 1/2" NPt maxi troll regulator in my parts box.
Sorry for the misunderstanding

---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 AM ----------

The propane tank will be app 12' away. The manifold I described poorly will have three valves, one for the barn(future and capped off) one to the house(same) and the shut off valve that will be utilized by the generator.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:19 PM
Max Thompson Max Thompson is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

It sounds like the “yellow flex” he is referring to is “Gas Tight”, “Ward Flex”, or one of the other stainless steel coated flex piping systems. Any type of stainless steel flex from your valve to the solenoid should be fine, I would use ½” – ¾” ID. I am not sure a ¼” solenoid is large enough, it may be, but I would opt for a ½” valve. I would think the inlet to your demand regulator is also ½” IP size.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:23 PM
Ed Sparks Ed Sparks is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

Thanks Max : Thats what I figured he was using but wanted to clarify.
That would make it meet code as it now requires stainless coated flex line.

Kenny : you should have mail in a couple minutes. It sounds like you are getting the correct setup, just make sure the reg will flow the needed BTU's. The manual will give you requirements.
Ed
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:36 PM
lokay5 lokay5 is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

The 1/4" solenoid valve will not flow enough at 11" WC. It should be 3/4".
The KN should be mounted solidly to the generator base, not on the generator itself so that it's not subjected to engine vibration.

If you didn't tap the carburetor exactly at the venturi you will have problems getting the proper vacuum signal to the KN, resulting in hard starting and poor throttle response. The carburetor must be tapped exactly at the venturi, not above or below it for the system to work correctly and deliver max power.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2012, 06:06 PM
Max Thompson Max Thompson is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokay5 View Post
The 1/4" solenoid valve will not flow enough at 11" WC. It should be 3/4".
1/2" IPS will flow plenty of propane. A 1/2" valve will fuel a 15.0 JC at full load on propane.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:22 PM
John Ward John Ward is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

Keep in mind "Gastite" or other brands will not flow the same volume of gas as a regular pipe since it is corrugated (CSST- Corrugated stainless steel tubing).

sizing chart:

http://www.gastite.com/page.php?pg=s...s&idlink=link6
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:28 AM
Kenny78 Kenny78 is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb an Onan bga to propane

Thanks for the manual Ed. I am leery of the 1/4 NPt valve but the seemingly knowledgable and nice man at png technologies was sure that it would work and was considerably cheaper than a larger one. Once I get my "inspection" and the man drives off I will tinker with things and if I determine that it will not flow enough I will replace with a proper size.

Yes, csst is what I was talking about, and thanks for the heads up on the size restriction. The kn is mounted on the sled and thanks for the heads up.

I do have a question on fuel consumption for line sizing. T-0015 states 47 cu ft for a 50cck(closest equivalent) which would be app 1.28 gallons propane an hour. If I convert cu ft to btu to size the line I come up with app 47500 btu. If I convert 1.28 gallons of propane to btu I get 118000 btu. Where am I misunderstanding things

Thanks again for the help
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:38 AM
lokay5 lokay5 is offline
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Question Re: How to plumb bga to propane

Max,

In your earlier post you said:

" I am not sure a ¼” solenoid is large enough, it may be, but I would opt for a ½” valve. I would think the inlet to your demand regulator is also ½” IP size."

Then in your last post you said:

"1/2" IPS will flow plenty of propane. A 1/2" valve will fuel a 15.0 JC at full load on propane."



( FYI - A Garretson KN has a 3/4" inlet and a 3/8" outlet)
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:25 AM
Max Thompson Max Thompson is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokay5 View Post
Max,

In your earlier post you said:

" I am not sure a ¼” solenoid is large enough, it may be, but I would opt for a ½” valve. I would think the inlet to your demand regulator is also ½” IP size."

Then in your last post you said:

"1/2" IPS will flow plenty of propane. A 1/2" valve will fuel a 15.0 JC at full load on propane."



( FYI - A Garretson KN has a 3/4" inlet and a 3/8" outlet)

I am not sure what your point is.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:42 AM
Kenny78 Kenny78 is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb an Onan BGA to propane

Ok, so is a 1/4" valve definitely too small? If so, where can I find a 1/2" solenoid that doesn't cost 100 dollars?
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:45 AM
lokay5 lokay5 is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb an Onan BGA to propane

I'm using a 1/2" Asco solenoid valve. I got it on eBay with a 12V coil. The solenoid, when activated, allows the valve to open. It doesn't physically "open" the valve.
It's designed to work at much higher pressures and 11"WC isn't enough to lift the diaphragm to open it against the internal "closing" spring, so I removed the spring, and it opens and closes.
I'm doing a 6500 NH to replace my 4000 BF, and since it's only going to operate outdoors, I'm really tempted to not use a solenoid valve and just depend on the KN to close.
I dunno.

There are two reasons for my not wanting to use a solenoid valve:

1. I'm chea...thrifty.

2. It's an emergency stand-by, and the fewer the parts there are to fail, the better, in an
emergency.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:54 PM
Kenny78 Kenny78 is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb an Onan BGA to propane

Well, finally got a hold of png. I guess we miscommunicated when I ordered. Maybe they thought i was feeding with bottles and could put the 1/4" solenoid before the final regulator. They were nice and the valve will get returned.

Found this guy on eBay
http://ebay.com/propane-kits?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

And bought this valve,
http://ebay.com/itm/181015064586

I can justify that price and they have all sizes and configurations.
I also figured out my math problem, I wasn't taking into account vapor vs. liquid btu calculations.
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2012, 02:06 AM
lokay5 lokay5 is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb an Onan BGA to propane

Excellent valve! Good price, too! Nice!
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:05 PM
Onan Dan Onan Dan is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

ED, what regulator did you use for your second stage regulator to bring the propane down to 11"water column? there is a bazillon of regulators out there . i can,t decide on the right one,also price will help me determine the right one.lol thx
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:10 PM
Onan Dan Onan Dan is offline
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Default Re: How to plumb bga to propane

Propane i have never ever dealt with propane other than when i was a kid my parents had to use this for cooking, any hoo i may have to convert my onans to propane one day down the road. been searching the sites for different regulators etc.
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