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Antique Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Antique Gas Engine Discussion

Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...


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  #1  
Old 12-06-2012, 04:32 PM
B. Riley B. Riley is offline
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Default Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...




Here are the first four images of my Fairbanks Morse. I posted back a few months ago a few pictures of this engine when it was still on the back of the truck. Right now, not much has been done to it; other than a cart being built to hold it. I'm at the point now that I have time to work on rebuilding the engine. As far as I can tell all the parts are there other than a few for the water injector. There are no cracks or welds that I can find. I tried to photograph the engine as much as possible before posting. The flywheels turn over fairly well, although I do have to apply a little bit of force to do so. The exhaust valve opens well enough, although I need to run some penetrating oil on the intake valve to see if it will open.
Right now I need to know information on the following things:
How do I know if the babbitt bearings are still good?
How can I tell if the Igniter is in good shape?
Do you see any parts I need or are missing from the engine?
How do I align the timing on the cam?
Are there any other things you would suggest...?
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2012, 04:34 PM
B. Riley B. Riley is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...




Here's the second batch of photos. I promise I won't double post again. This was just for the photos.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:04 PM
fordson1 fordson1 is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

Mr. Riley,
You can just pull your rod cap & the two main bearing caps & look at them. First you might rock the crankshaft & rod up & down & see if you're getting a lot of play. Check to see if the babbitt appears smooth, not chattered out or bad scoring. Also check to see if you have any shims left. If they have some clearance, not real loose & the bearing surfaces look good you're probably good to go. Clean them up & be sure you put them back the same way they came off.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:54 PM
B. Riley B. Riley is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

I still need to check the bearings. There is still some rotten grease in the grease cups, so I couldn't see into the bearings. I lifted up on the crankshaft and rod like you told me to. There was absolutely no play in them. I did lift up on the flywheels and there was definitely some play, but none when I pulled them from the sides. I'll see if I can do some cleaning and maybe get into the bearing boxes soon. By the way, do any of y'all think I should fully restore this engine, including painting it, or should I just restore it mechanically and just clean up all the dirt and grime. I've seen how some engines are just restored mechanically. Most of the components on this engine are in very good shape. It was pulled from one of the many 1890s barns that a friend of ours in Illinois owns. The gentleman is into his 80s now, and I think and he owns several of these engines. I wouldn't be surprised if this and several of those engines and tractors he owns are original to the farm. The farm is thousands of acres in size.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:07 PM
oldproff oldproff is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

When you take them off to look at the bearings. Be sure to keep every thing in order to get the shims back in the same way. I just got through redoing a line shaft. It was locked up because the shims were messed up and the babbet was very dirty. Clean your babbet with kersone and clean 30wt oil and clean rags. Finish off with a clean rag and motor oil.If the shims are right the crank should turn freely with new grease instaled. If they are too tight tou need to add a thin shim. If they are too loose you need to take out a shim. The shims are there for the pourpse of adjusting the clearence for the bearings. Always save your shims you will find many uses for them in this hobby. Bill K
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:04 PM
fordson1 fordson1 is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

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Originally Posted by B. Riley View Post
By the way, do any of y'all think I should fully restore this engine, including painting it, or should I just restore it mechanically and just clean up all the dirt and grime. I've seen how some engines are just restored mechanically. Most of the components on this engine are in very good shape. .
Lots of varying opinions on your question here, it's been my experience that manytimes at a show the engine in good working order but in it's working clothes actually running something & not just sitting there idling attracts the crowd.

Kinda depends on you.... you do what is most satisfying to you & lots of people will enjoy it regardless.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:29 PM
kfdutch kfdutch is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

Mr. Riley

I have an FM Model Z 3 HP 475 RPM engine I have had for years. It use to pump water for our family in the late 1940's or early 1950's. The patent date mine is 10-17-16.

Somewhere above you asked if anything was missing from your engine. The one thing I can see is the oil cup that sits on top of the engine and drops oil on the piston. You see a pipe with a plug in it. That is where is should be. I will see if I can post a picture of my engine to give you an idea of what I mean. (I tried the pictures but it would not let me post them)

Anyway welcome to this group. I am also new to this group.

---------- Post added at 05:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by kfdutch View Post
Mr. Riley

I have an FM Model Z 3 HP 475 RPM engine I have had for years. It use to pump water for our family in the late 1940's or early 1950's. The patent date mine is 10-17-16.

Somewhere above you asked if anything was missing from your engine. The one thing I can see is the oil cup that sits on top of the engine and drops oil on the piston. You see a pipe with a plug in it. That is where is should be. I will see if I can post a picture of my engine to give you an idea of what I mean. (I tried the pictures but it would not let me post them)

Anyway welcome to this group. I am also new to this group.
Send a PM to me with your email and I will try to send you some pictures.
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:20 PM
B. Riley B. Riley is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

Yeah, I forgot about the oiler. That is pretty much the only thing I could find missing. Thanks for reminding me though! By the way, does anyone know how I can tell what condition the contacts are in on the igniter? Also, is there a way I can setup some sort of coil temporarily until I have the magneto rebuilt? I don't have a huge amount of money, so there is only so much I can do right now. I'm planning on fixing the engine up mechanically and just running it off a battery and whatever kind of coil I can bootstrap for the engine for now. Whether I fully restore the engine will wait till later. I just wana see some (metaphorically speaking) smoke!
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:03 PM
ScooterBob ScooterBob is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Riley View Post
Also, is there a way I can setup some sort of coil temporarily until I have the magneto rebuilt? I don't have a huge amount of money, so there is only so much I can do right now. I'm planning on fixing the engine up mechanically and just running it off a battery and whatever kind of coil I can bootstrap for the engine for now. Whether I fully restore the engine will wait till later. I just wana see some (metaphorically speaking) smoke!
Here's a link to how to wire a battery and coil to your ignitor...
http://www.old-engine.com/maglco.htm

I've been using the 12 volt car coils, just the low voltage side. I've bought several at swap meets for $5 a pc.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:55 PM
B. Riley B. Riley is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

Allright, I'll give that a try. We have two 1963 Corvairs, and one of them is sitting around unused right now. I'll see about taking the coil off of it and using its coil for this setup. If that doesn't work we got a Model T sitting around as well. I can see if its buzz coil can be used or rebuilt. Is there any way of telling if the piston and rings are any good? It has lines running along its length parallel to the cylinder.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:17 AM
ScooterBob ScooterBob is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

You need a coil, not a buzz coil, for your ignitor engine. Buzz coils are for spark plugs.

You can test the system with a wire loose from the battery. If the ignitor points are closed, you should see sparks when you scratch the wire to the battery. When you open the ignitor points, you should not see any sparks, since the circuit is not complete.

As far as the cylinder goes, these old engines don't need a lot of compression, but that would be your test. Since you have scratches in the cylinder walls, I would at least pull that piston and make sure there isn't any dirt still in there to do more damage.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:57 PM
B. Riley B. Riley is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

The piston is what seems to have lines along it, not the cylinder. There is so much bunk following behind the piston, I can't even see the cylinder walls. By the way, how do I get that "work clothes" look. Do I leave it all rusty the way it is, or do I sand blast the rust off and clean it up and run it like that. Or do I put some sort of paint splatter effect on it?
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:59 AM
Mike Patterson Mike Patterson is online now
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

“……By the way, how do I get that "work clothes" look……”


You already have the look just the way it is. I think Fordson1 put it best.

“…..Kinda depends on you.... you do what is most satisfying to you & lots of people will enjoy it regardless…..”

It’s definitely up to the owner and what brings a smile to his/her face.

You will probably want to make the decision before you start the teardown however. If you decide to go the restoration route with new paint you will want to do the cleaning and painting on the small parts as you go, if you’re doing it “as found” you will not want to go overboard with the cleaning and derusting.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:58 AM
B. Riley B. Riley is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

Alright, I'll probably do the "as found" look with it. This engine was literally a barn find. I don't know any history on it, but I could ask the previous owner. I'm unsure if it actually came from his farm or from an engine show. I'll post again if I can find anything on it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:05 PM
B. Riley B. Riley is offline
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Photo Re: Fairbanks Morse Z 1915 3HP 450 RPM - How Do I...

Here's a couple of fresh shots of the bearing from the cam side of the engine. Tell me what you think. Do you think they are any good, or should I look into getting new ones.
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