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Replacement rims for split rims?


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  #1  
Old 12-10-2012, 11:07 AM
Avery22x36 Avery22x36 is offline
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Default Replacement rims for split rims?

Does anyone know where I can buy aftermarket non split rims for older 1 1/2 ton Ford and Chevy trucks? I have an older friend who can't change his own tires like I do and wants something the tire shops will service. Even here in farm country its getting hard to find shops that will change a tire on a split rim, I suppose its an insurance thing? Anyway, I looked on the net for him and didn't find much for large stock trucks so if someone has a link or number I would appreciate it. Thanks!
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:52 PM
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vern0n vern0n is offline
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Default Re: Replacement rims for split rims?

May have to take them to a truck tire shop. Many big trucks still run split rim.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:30 PM
Avery22x36 Avery22x36 is offline
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Default Re: Replacement rims for split rims?

Yea, they will change them on modern ones but not even the local farmers COOPs will not do anything very old, I think there is some clause in their insurance or something now. Growing up, we always changed them, we chained them and beat on them while putting the air in, never had any problems. Goodyear, Firestone and all the big outfits now have signs up saying they will not do them also.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:56 PM
heins heins is offline
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Default Re: Replacement rims for split rims?

A truck salvage yard would be a place to find tubeless truck rims. They would be a 22.5 rim to replace a 20" split rim. U Haul trucks run them.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:07 PM
heins heins is offline
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Default Re: Replacement rims for split rims?

I have 6 truck rims that have chevy bolt pattern that are for tubless tires. I would sell for $25 each. I only have one 5 bolt Budd wheel that would fit a Ford. I have some 6 bolt Budd wheels but they fit 2 ton trucks.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:00 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Replacement rims for split rims?

If your truck uses the 16" tires, the new 16.5s won't work on the old rims. You may have to have custom rims made to fit the new tires, to the hubs, as I do not think the old bolt patterns match the new standard rims. Split rims were outlawed for vehicles made after 1968, by the government. Too many people maimed or killed due to either carelessness by the operater (lock and bead ring not seated properly), the failure of the rim bead (the ring does not lock in and seat due to rust), or the fing just breaks, due to age and stress failure.

Most tire shops will not work on splitters, as they do not have the special cage and protective equipment needed to safely work on them. When I had my 1950 IHC model L-120, which had 16" split rims with 950-16 tires on them, I had to mount them my self. After cleaning the rim and locking ring thoroughly, I had to set the gas station lift down on top of the tire, in case the rim failed. A locking fill was clamped onto the tube, and the tire -placed upside down, with the lift against the tire. In the 30 years I had the truck, I had only 1 rim failure, the lock ring broke in half as I was filling the tire. With the lift on top of the tire, it only made a loud bang, when the rim failed. The tire was then deflated, by disconnecting the air hose at the wall connection, and I located another rim at a junkyard at a later date, (I already had 2 spares).

Split rims can be extermely dangerous. You must never inflate a flat tire, with split rims, if the tire is so flat that the rim rests on the bead. To do so is to invite lock ring failure or dis-engagement: where the lock rim will seperate from the body of the rim. NEVER drive on a flat split rim. The Split rim needs pressure on the lock ring. If the tire is flat, the lock ring can be dislodged, and the tire itself can come off the rim suddenly. Always jack the tire up a little bit, in order to allow the tire to inflate evenly against the rim. DO NOT hold the filler to the tube neck by hand. If the rim fails, it can remove your hand or kill you nearly instantly! Always use a tire filler that clips on and stays on the tire tube neck. A good auto tool supply like NAPA should have them, along with a short hose, so as to connect to a regular hose with a coupling. After inflating the tire, carefully inspect the rim and locking ring, to be sure the ring is fully seated, and is settled into the lock groove evenly. Any descrepency, out of round, bulges in the bead, ring not co-encentric on the tire (bead evenly spaced around rim), deflate the tire and take to a good truck tire shop. Most auto shops will not be able to help you.

Andrew
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:35 PM
truckdog62563 truckdog62563 is offline
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Default Re: Replacement rims for split rims?

It's becoming more and more difficult to get reputable big truck tire shops to touch the true split rims, i.e. the rims that split in down middle of the assembly. The technical name for them is Firestone RH-5°, the common name is "widow maker". Below is a cross section diagram of one. Ford and Chevy were by far the brands most exposed to these rims. The first record I have of their production was around 1946, and the last of the wheel companies to stop listing them in its catalog was Kelsey-Hayes in 1976. But obviously the collector community, and others still using these old trucks, are still exposed to the millions that are still in service.

Earlier this year I sold a set of the tubeless 19.5s having the 5 lug x 8" pattern to the new owner of a Ford F-4 who told me one of his widow makes blew apart as he was loading his new purchase on the trailer to haul it home. His first act was to replace its wheels.

As said above, the Ford (5 lug x 8") and Chevy (10 lug x 7.25") wheels in both 19.5" and 22.5" sizes are the best replacement solutions if you can find them. The 19.5s were made by Budd in 5.25" and 6.00" widths, while the 22.5s were made by Budd, K-H, Motor Wheel Corporation and Firestone/Accuride in 5.25", 6.00", and 6.75" widths.

If you cannot find them used, custom wheel companies do exist. One that I've visited and had a tour of is American Wheel Specialist in Pasco, WA. AWS is the wholesale custom wheel supplier to the huge Les Schwab Tire chain that blankets the western states. If, however, a person lives east of the Schwab service area AWS will work directly with you. When I visited I spent a morning firing questions at the owner, Juan Murillo, and his son Shaun. One of the questions I asked was about their ability to pull old wheel centers from widow makers for reuse in new tubeless outer rims. Mr. Murillo said they do this, but that he at times as difficulty locating narrow enough new 22.5" rims to make it workable. Most of our old wheels are 5" to 6" wide, while the narrowest of new 22.5" rims is 6.75" wide. He said that experience has shown him that anything wider tends to rub when mounted on the front of old trucks. AWS's phone number is (509) 543-9305. I have no connection to the company.

The other consideration when looking into custom 22.5s is tire availability. The narrowest 22.5" tire today is a 9R22.5" radial that would be spec'd for the 6.00" or 6.75" wide rim. In the 19.5" size, an 8R19.5" would work on either the 5.25" or 6.00" wide rims.

Below is the cross section diagram of the widow maker RH-5° outer rim. Stu McMillan



---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM ----------

I don't see a way to edit my comments, so I'll add here that in my research I've found no record of the RH-5° rim having been outlawed federally. There was a serious recall effort advanced by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) starting in around 1972. It advanced through the layers of government approval until it abruptly died in 1980 when OSHA instead mandated additional training and wall posters for service facilities. A very weak remedy to the problem that no doubt resulted from extreme industry lobbying pressure. I have, however, heard that several states have outlawed these rims, but nothing more.

In the case of the multi-part rims that we commonly call "lock ring" style, these were not part of the recall push. In fact these are still in wide use today and are still being manufactured by Accuride for use with Dayton style demountable applications. Stu
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:44 PM
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Gary Pflum Gary Pflum is offline
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Default Re: Replacement rims for split rims?

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Originally Posted by truckdog62563 View Post
It's becoming more and more difficult to get reputable big truck tire shops to touch the true split rims, i.e. the rims that split in down middle of the assembly. The technical name for them is Firestone RH-5°, the common name is "widow maker". Below is a cross section diagram of one. Ford and Chevy were by far the brands most exposed to these rims. The first record I have of their production was around 1946, and the last of the wheel companies to stop listing them in its catalog was Kelsey-Hayes in 1976. But obviously the collector community, and others still using these old trucks, are still exposed to the millions that are still in service.

Earlier this year I sold a set of the tubeless 19.5s having the 5 lug x 8" pattern to the new owner of a Ford F-4 who told me one of his widow makes blew apart as he was loading his new purchase on the trailer to haul it home. His first act was to replace its wheels.

As said above, the Ford (5 lug x 8") and Chevy (10 lug x 7.25") wheels in both 19.5" and 22.5" sizes are the best replacement solutions if you can find them. The 19.5s were made by Budd in 5.25" and 6.00" widths, while the 22.5s were made by Budd, K-H, Motor Wheel Corporation and Firestone/Accuride in 5.25", 6.00", and 6.75" widths.

If you cannot find them used, custom wheel companies do exist. One that I've visited and had a tour of is American Wheel Specialist in Pasco, WA. AWS is the wholesale custom wheel supplier to the huge Les Schwab Tire chain that blankets the western states. If, however, a person lives east of the Schwab service area AWS will work directly with you. When I visited I spent a morning firing questions at the owner, Juan Murillo, and his son Shaun. One of the questions I asked was about their ability to pull old wheel centers from widow makers for reuse in new tubeless outer rims. Mr. Murillo said they do this, but that he at times as difficulty locating narrow enough new 22.5" rims to make it workable. Most of our old wheels are 5" to 6" wide, while the narrowest of new 22.5" rims is 6.75" wide. He said that experience has shown him that anything wider tends to rub when mounted on the front of old trucks. AWS's phone number is (509) 543-9305. I have no connection to the company.

The other consideration when looking into custom 22.5s is tire availability. The narrowest 22.5" tire today is a 9R22.5" radial that would be spec'd for the 6.00" or 6.75" wide rim. In the 19.5" size, an 8R19.5" would work on either the 5.25" or 6.00" wide rims.

Below is the cross section diagram of the widow maker RH-5° outer rim. Stu McMillan



---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM ----------

I don't see a way to edit my comments, so I'll add here that in my research I've found no record of the RH-5° rim having been outlawed federally. There was a serious recall effort advanced by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) starting in around 1972. It advanced through the layers of government approval until it abruptly died in 1980 when OSHA instead mandated additional training and wall posters for service facilities. A very weak remedy to the problem that no doubt resulted from extreme industry lobbying pressure. I have, however, heard that several states have outlawed these rims, but nothing more.

In the case of the multi-part rims that we commonly call "lock ring" style, these were not part of the recall push. In fact these are still in wide use today and are still being manufactured by Accuride for use with Dayton style demountable applications. Stu
I'm glad to see the comment at the last of your post. "Lock Ring" style verses "Lock Rim" style. It is important for everyone to know the difference. It is very possible for an untrained eye to look at a lock rim and think it is not a lock ring style and therefore think it is a safe rim. Both are dangerous but the lock rim style with age is a case of "when it will blow up" not "if it will blow up".
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:49 PM
truckdog62563 truckdog62563 is offline
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Default Re: Replacement rims for split rims?

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Originally Posted by froelich View Post
This thread appears to be talking about at least 4 distinct types of rims. The RH5 is a two piece rim, not really a split rim. I believe the rim that is in question is the rim that is split diagonally across the wheel, as if it were fractured. It then uses a solid bead ring. These were used in the early days with tube type tires with dayton style wheels on large trucks. Then there are the tube type solid rims that use a split bead ring, which are still in common use today, and should be no problem getting repaired.
Ahh, I don't get to talk about these very often. The demountable style that you describe having the diagonal split front to back is technically called a Goodyear "K" type. Actually there were two, a "K-18°" and a "K-28°" which describes the angle of the solid/continous ring's seat. The "K" is also a killer, just as bad as the RH-5°, and was included in the IIHS recall effort. Anymore there's not as much said about them because it's easier to remove them from service than are the Budd style disc wheels having obsolete bolt patterns. Any Dayton style 20" spoke wheel will accept a new lock ring 20" rim or modern 22.5" tubeless rim and tire which eliminates the problem. Assuming you can find one that is narrow enough for an old truck's application. Stu
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