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Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch


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  #1  
Old 03-01-2013, 02:15 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Hello,
Headed to Home Depot to get my wiring.

Kpack gave me a great Onan remote start switch combo battery level and hobbs meter.

I was intending on running an 18 gauge to this. (50'). This is about what is coming off of the Gen set.

However, the Remote Switch KPack sent me has 12 Gauge wire on it.

I was under the impression I am only switching a low draw DC 12 volt relay?
Do I need such a heavy wire??

Also, does anyone recommend running additional signal wire for future items such as controls, monitors and such.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:42 PM
Xeonpony Xeonpony is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

14guage is recomended for that length, use marine rated wire if youi want it to last.

12V has a massive drop, relay can pull up to .5A and don't forget the voltage drop when the starter kicks in must be added to that.

I used 12guage ground, 12 guage start and a 14guage stop as it will not suffer from the lag cuased by the starter, and my run is 50 foot as well I have had no issues at all with this config.

I have run all the rest with 14g, Fuel level; Run indicat; Engin temp; Batt;

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------

18awg = 3.33% voltage drop at 12v you'd see 11.6V less when starter engaged Risks: Relay may undervolt and drop out

14Awg = 1.33% Voltage drop at 12V you'd see 11.84V less when starter engaged Risks: Relay may undervolt and drop out

12Awg = 0.83% Voltage drop at 12V you'd see 11.9V less when starter engaged Risks: reduced risk of relay droping out.

Only the start signal wire and the common ground will suffer this! the stop and signal wires can be all 14awg for all guages you must be very exact with the length of the wire to maintain consistent off set of readings.

I thought I'd clarify and back my statement with hard numbers.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:46 PM
Jack Hottel Jack Hottel is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

From the JC operators manual 967-0120, page 13:
Remote Start-Stop Switch (Optional)
wire sizes:
#18 - to 125 feet
#16 - to 200 feet
#14 - to 300 feet
#12 - to 500 feet
Jack Hottel
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:53 PM
Douglas123 Douglas123 is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Don't know which generator you have nor transfer switch you may be using or just a switch to start the puppy remotely. As Mr. Jack says 18 should be fine, no major loads and if I'm thinking what you are doing you are just applying ground potential for remote start.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:04 PM
Xeonpony Xeonpony is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

if transisterized start board the 18 will be fine, if mechanicle relay it is iffy, you never lose by aplying good design practices and 14 and 12awg isn't "that" costly, especialy when you want things to just work with out hassle!
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:05 PM
Dave Edmonds Dave Edmonds is offline
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Smile Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Jack's chart looks about right to me, but there is no such thing as too much copper. I've had a few people in my sound career that thought that using too-large conductors on speakers would overload the amplifier!!

Heavier conductors are physically stronger than smaller ones; might be a reason to beef up the conductors a bit. Just my 2-cents.

Dave Edmonds
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:21 PM
Graycenphil Graycenphil is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

If voltage drop is an issue, why not use a 12 volt relay at the genreator. Have the remote switch just trip the relay.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:26 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hottel View Post
From the JC operators manual 967-0120, page 13:
Remote Start-Stop Switch (Optional)
wire sizes:
#18 - to 125 feet
#16 - to 200 feet
#14 - to 300 feet
#12 - to 500 feet
Jack Hottel
Jack,

I am trying to find this in the JB manual. If this is the case I can return all the 12 gauge wire I just bought at Home Depot. $$$$$$$$$$$$

Xeonpony is correct in the voltage drop but it just seems so excessive to operate a relay 45 feet away.

---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 PM ----------

Xeonpony,

I thought the relay is on the generator on a JB 3 /CR AD 1986 build.

The remote is just a momentary switch?

I have 1" conduit that I will need to stuff (4) 8 gauge wires plus the (4) 12 gauge for a Remote switch. This is a tight fit.

I could not find any mention in the manual for JB.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:30 PM
Xeonpony Xeonpony is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

you are indeed just turning a relay on, and then a bigger relay then an even bigger motor! that's what most seem to forget that when the starter engages the battery voltage driving the relay will go yet even lower! so what can happen with the smaller wire is the relay risks dropping out then turning on then dropping out, rinse and repeat.

To avoid this issue just use 12 gauge for your ground and start signal, the rest can be 14 gauge and that way you ensure no problems! that and make sure your battery is well charged and healthy. I am assuming like me, you just want the damned thing to work! doing it that way will ensure just that.

both switches are momentary and switch to ground I do believe.

---------- Post added at 05:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 PM ----------

ONLY the Start and Ground conducter need to be 12 guage

All others can be 14 guage.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:34 PM
Ed Sparks Ed Sparks is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

I hope you have a straight run with no turns if your 1" conduit is all you have. I use 1-1/2 or 2 " for all runs to make it easier to pull. 4 # 8's will be a tough pull all by themselves.
Plastic conduit is dirt cheap, compared to skinning a wire trying to pull though a too small pipe.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:03 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Ok! What I have is a 300-0986 deluxe remote start switch. See Picture

It appears this was designed for a 6.5-NH-Spec. 16004 Series
GenSet With this genset it recommends 18 Ga wire.


My genset is a 7.5 JB 3/CR AD 1986 build.

My set only has two wires to start the set. Both are 14 gauge.

This 300-0986 delux switch obviously has more then just a momentary switch (aside from the other junk) The switch is huge with 6 connector wire options.

This may not be the right switch for me????????
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300-0986 Deluxe remote start switch.jpg  
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:06 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Sparks View Post
I hope you have a straight run with no turns if your 1" conduit is all you have. I use 1-1/2 or 2 " for all runs to make it easier to pull. 4 # 8's will be a tough pull all by themselves.
Plastic conduit is dirt cheap, compared to skinning a wire trying to pull though a too small pipe.
Ed,
It will be tough but it is buried under frozen soil. I will squirt a quart of lube in this conduit.
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:10 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Here is the installation sheet.
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Connection sheet 300-0986 Remote Switch.jpg  
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:16 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

This is the back. 4 wires from the generator go to the switch. I only have two.

I guess this will not be installed tomorrow. I will be chasing schematics.
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P1010020.jpg  
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:29 AM
Xeonpony Xeonpony is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Middle is a common ground, pin 6 is the run indicating light 2 is stop 1 is start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeonpony View Post
Middle is a common ground, pin 6 is the run indicating light 2 is stop 1 is start

the schematic up top is correct for pretty well all of them.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:52 AM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

After spending a few minutes with this switch I see it is just a regular Momentary switch with a few spade connectors to get power for the little bat meter and such.

I hesitated about the 12 gauge (even though I bought it), because of the price and the restricted room in my conduit. Also the short distance of 45 feet. The Manual for the gen and remote recommends 18 gauge.

I will compromise and bring 14 or 16 gauge.

*question* without having to spend much thought on this, does anyone know off hand why the 4 wires when only two come off my gen? I see where they go on the switch but where would you suggest I add the extra two wires on the Gen. I looked at the schematic last night and do not see connections intended by the factory.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:54 PM
Xeonpony Xeonpony is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

4th wire is what makes the light glow, just in case you wonderfed if the gen set was running (Like the house working wasn't enough!)

in all odds it will work, but I when't 12 guage for certainty of mind! and my run is percicely 50' with a relay stage to start, even with a low battery she fires up solidly.

---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 AM ----------

Oh on the gen set its self! There should be a screw block inside the start box with the numbers listed, could be the last two broke off the socket, this happend to mine so I disposed of the plug and hard wired inside the control box.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:38 PM
msw msw is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

I have a 75' remote start, used 18 awg and have no issues.
Hope your pipe pull is straight and easy, spares are always good to have in case you want more bells and whistles
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:11 PM
Kevin K Kevin K is online now
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

The remote switch Kpack generously provided you with is a standard RV switch. Onan has been consistent over the years in the way these were wired.

1) Ground
2) Stop
3) Start
4) not used
5) Battery voltage fused at the generator
6) 12 volts present when the generator is running

The RV generator is started by momentarily shorting the START wire to the GROUND wire with the spring loaded switch. The RV generator is stopped by momentarily shorting the STOP wire to the GROUND wire.

Most of the RV generators also have Start Disconnect on Run circuitry. Because the generator is being remotely started, and the operator cannot always hear the generator motor, provision was made to de-energize the start solenoid as soon as the engine starts, to avoid over cranking. Does the JB have this function? If not, I would consider adding it before you attempt to remotely start the generator.

If I were wiring it, I would want to use 18 gauge wire. Why don't you use your ammeter to measure the remote start and remote stop currents. Once you know the current draw, you can use standard wire resistance tables to find the voltage drop on your 50 Ft. run of wire. If it turns out there is a problem with 18 gauge, you can add a pair of low current draw relays at the generator to reduce current requirements enough to make the 18 gauge wire work.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:02 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Today was a complete failure!!!!!!!!!!

I attempted to fish my wire and could not even get the fish tape to pass through.
32" distance of 1" conduit with 360 degrees of bends (4) 90's. Using 1/8" metal fish tape.
Whole day shot.

I purposely set up 3 conduits 2 are back up for future expansion.

I will try and air blast fishing line through it then retry the metal fishing tape and then the (4) 8 gauge wires.

At this point I will use one of the back up conduits to run my low voltage remote start and other low voltage items. Camera, alarm etc.

If I do go 18GA I could use Thermostat wire???. If it does not work I can change the gauge. Its all about $$$$ wiring is super expensive now.Id rather reserve the 12 gauge I bought for another project.Both the 12 and 18 will be there its a matter of switching it.

Kevin K------- I do not know if my gen has the starter disconnect. I will have to check.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:31 PM
Ed Sparks Ed Sparks is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

With that many bends it will be tough.
Take your shop vac and tape it over one end with duct tape.
Then get a ball of contractors nylon twine. Put a small piece of cloth tied to a knot on the end.
Turn on the vac, drop the cloth on string in the other end. Allow the vac to suck the light twine through. Might take a little tug back every now & then to get it to suck all the way through the bends.
Once you have the twine through, tie a piece of nylon rope to the twine and pull it through.
Now tie tape the wires to the nylon rope in a staggered run so they are fastened securely and gently pull them while having someone feed the wires into the conduit from the bell end.
I have pulled thousands of feet of wires this way.
Some of the runs I've done are several hundred feet up to a thousand feet with 2-0 cables.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:23 PM
Jack Hottel Jack Hottel is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

If not in the same conduit with power wires, thermostat wire would be OK. When with power wires all insulation must be rated for powerline voltages.
I am assuming you have 900-0184, Service Manual YD Generators and Controls. The wiring diagrams for the aircooled J units are on pages 75 and 76, the only difference being the presence or absence of the low oil pressure switch, S4, and the Emergency Relay (LOP), K14. The remote Start/Stop switch will connect to Terminal Barrier Strip TB11. TB11 is located high in the control box, above the heat sink for the charging diode. From exhaust side to carb side TB11 terminals are: B+(Fused), Ground(1), Stop(2), Start(3). This covers everything for your remote panel except the running light. That should be connected TB12-4, which powers the ignition and gas valve, and is energized when the engine is running.
Also the starter shuts down when the Centrifugal Switch, S1, makes as the engine comes up to speed. Around 900 RPM I think.
Good luck on your fishing. Mice have also been used.
Jack Hottel
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:22 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Ed Sparks, I like your idea with the vavuum. I have fishing line and a styrofoam ball. This should work. I will not need to buy anything.

Jack,
I appreciate giving me the locals for those connections. It is better then fussing with the schematic. My reading vision is worsening and I get head aches with that small print.

I called the pet store and they said they will not take the mouse back after I used it.
I wonder how they would know? I suppose I could just tell them it was the wrong color and size

i am looking forward to make my new attempt tomorrow.
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:51 PM
Daverepair Daverepair is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Always run either an extra couple of wires or a piece or non rotting rope/twine along with your wires. Never know what the future brings. Might want to run 120 back out for an outlet or heater.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hottel View Post
If not in the same conduit with power wires, thermostat wire would be OK. When with power wires all insulation must be rated for powerline voltages.Jack Hottel
I agree with Jack. Do not run single conductor DC wiring in conduit with AC. At the minimum with 4 conductors, jacketed wiring for the DC should be used withe the appropriate V rating.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:55 PM
Ed Sparks Ed Sparks is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Be careful not to get the styrofoam ball stuck . Thats why I suggested a small piece of cloth. You have to go through 4 90 degree fittings. We only use 45 degree turns or long sweep 90's.

Also we always run low voltage control wires in separate conduit from AC line voltage.
Easier to pull that way. The amount of force needed for pulling large gauge wire ,can damage small wires.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:22 AM
John Ward John Ward is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

As stated Code requires all wire run in the same conduit to have the same line voltage rating, typically 600v. Plus running low voltage wires with line voltage can induce signals into the low voltage wiring. If it is a DC wire or a resistance wire that can be more of a problem. I ALWAYS run a separate conduit for my control wires. And if 18ga thermostat wire is used I would pull 18-8 t'stat wire so you will have spare conductors. Keep in mind it is solid wire and not as forgiving as stranded wire. just my $.015
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:16 PM
Xeonpony Xeonpony is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

and don't forget you are only alloewd X number of current carrying conducters for a given conduit, with out looking to be sure but I think you all ready there with 3/4 non metalic conduit.

Do not use fishing line! nastiness will ensue! Use only a 1/8 Nylon rope! (Fishing line will cut into your hand or break, the nylon may be streatchy but has huge tensile strength and soft on the hands as well as non rotting!.

I'll dig out the code book after the first coffe keep in mind though it is for us wierd dog owning Canadians where the penguins like to chew on our wiring it will be pretty well the exact same for you guys though with minor diff's more or less
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:38 PM
Ed Sparks Ed Sparks is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

I use nylon contractors twine to suck through with the vacuum, then tie that to 1/4 in nylon for pull rope.
I also have a spool of phone company fish tape that is flat nylon woven 1/2 in wide. Must be about 800 feet on the spool.
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:01 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

[QUOTE=Xeonpony;886272]

I'll dig out the code book after the first coffe keep in mind though it is for us wierd dog owning Canadians where the penguins like to chew on our wiring

Thank you,Xeonpony.

The have a big chart at the home depot posting how many wires and gauge for a particular size of conduit.

I can squeeze (8) 8 ga in a 1" conduit. I will only use (4)

Ed,
The reason I thought I would use 100 pound fishing line was because I have it. I would tie the 1/4 inch rope to that and use that rope to pull my wires.
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:27 PM
Xeonpony Xeonpony is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

there is an amp rating there too they are missing. # of cunducters @ A load = Number of current carrying cunducters allowd

Ok so if you are using split phase you have 2 current carrying cunducters @ 8Awg, I need the max amps the gen set can source
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:43 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

The max the gen put out is 7500
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:05 PM
Xeonpony Xeonpony is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

ok for one run of 3/4" at 30c you are good for your fill rating at no more then 4 total conducters.

Types:RW75, TW75, R90, RW90, T90 nylon are rated for 45A in a race way or conduit

All so you are at your max fill for a standered rectangular style outled J box so basicaly your 4 cunducter 8awg run is a dedicated run pretty much.

So basicaly your start stop and monitoring cabals will need theire own run then follow any other branch runs need their own dedicated run.

Any consolation even if you used bigger conduit you'd be in the same boat! So good thing you did make multiple runs!. My future advise though for 8Guage never use less then 1" conduit, stuff aint to flexible! and wide swept bends are a must. 3/4 is more of 10 guage and down or signaling conduit.

I general deal with 3/4 to 1-1/4 inch with 2 guage cables!, I have a run of 250kcmill now that is BIG wire! Tech-90 is your friend here as it is direct barial rated wire pricy but well well worth it.

---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 AM ----------

O and at 30A 240V at 60 feet (I included lead in lead out) you only see 1.17% Vdrop So you are well within all codes. so you shouldn't have any issues at all.

But like I said treat the 8 guage as a dedicated run with it's own boxes up to the point it joins the gen set/transfer switch if in place/ breaker box
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:16 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Here I think USA NEC code says separate the power and control wires by ~2feet, so you don't get currents/voltages induced on the control wires from currents/voltages on the power wires. But I'm guessing on only a 50ft run it will be ok.

As a technical issue if the pipes are already underground and you have interference between the two, twist the control wires together ( like cat 5 computer wires) to minimize magneticly induced currents and use a sheild control cable to stop capacitively coupled voltages.

Also when you pull the wires thru plastic pipe, pull SLOWLY the rope can heat and cut through plastic pipe and wire insulation, seen it happen, especially on curves and elbows.

**********************
I ran some numbers for resistance of 100ft run (50ft each way) of various gauges copper wire, based on resistivity of copper. If you meanure your relay current you can caluclate voltage drop from this. I see that even if your relays draw 1 amp an 18 gauge wire would only have a .623 Volt drop along the wire.

wire .......ohms
gauge ....per 100ft
===================
18 ,,,,,,,, 0.623
16 ,,,,,,,, 0.39
14 ,,,,,,,, 0.246
12 ,,,,,,,, 0.155
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  #35  
Old 03-03-2013, 05:22 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Len,

Thank you.
These numbers seem negligible. I have no way to measure dc amp draw. Most meters including mine are for ac amps only. The schematic does not indicate. and the relay only shows maximum.

I may dedicate one conduit for all low volt low draw circuits (as I mentioned earlier).

I will stuff several thermostat wires in there. Maybe some 16ga and 20ga. I am wondering if the thermostat wire woold also work just as fine with the alarm system and future monitoring devices.

My intentions are to place sensors on the gen or other things in my shed. I will eventually want to play around ( all of this is playing)with one of those stamp chips and be able to monitor things from my lap top. I have 100's of feet of telephone wire and alarm wire which are all likley candidates. The price is right on thermostat wire. I never did like the 22 gauge stuff.
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  #36  
Old 03-04-2013, 07:36 AM
Kevin K Kevin K is online now
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Quote:
Originally Posted by andersonmilltexas View Post
I have no way to measure dc amp draw.
Are you sure? Even the $3 Harbor Freight meters have a current function. Or are you referring to a clamp on meter?

If you already have the wire, simply hook the start/stop switch to one end, connect the other end to your generator, place the voltage probes of your meter across the ground and start terminals on the generator where you connected your wire, press the start button, and read the voltage drop across the switch and wire. Do this, of course, before you pull the wire.
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  #37  
Old 03-04-2013, 11:06 AM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

I am with Ed on the vacuum and using something soft like a cotton ball.

For string, I have used the plastic tie down cord you get for free from HD or lowes. It is smooth very strong light weight plastic cord.
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  #38  
Old 03-04-2013, 05:11 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

I used the rag method for 1-st line, then pulled larger line, less risk than styrofoam ball.

Seen some 12V relays for cars draw 1 amp coil current (a real current hog). They look about same as in J series Onan gens, large steel cans. Other newer ones, like in Onan Emerald gens have a 300 ohm coil and draw ~ .04 amps, (plastic case relay 3/4" x 1/2 x 1/2). I would measure your coil ohms or curent. And plan a voltage drop budget.

Would worry just a little about combining alarm circuits with others, alarm panels only send ~.005 to .010 amps down zone circuits. And sense them with a microprocessor, wouldn't take much to false alarm it. Twisting the alarm wire will help eliminate wiring magnetic transients from coupling into alarm wires. I also used sheilded cable to eliminate capacitive voltage coupling. If your playing with Stamp I would pay alot of attention to protecting the I/O from static, wiring induced transients.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:21 PM
Leon N. Leon N. is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Have you considered using direct buried wiring? Why mess with conduits? You would only need small lengths where the wiring penetrates the building. I contacted a wire distributor in Boston and picked up some 400 feet of 1/0 aluminum direct buried cable that was an odd end of spool length when I did my installation. .
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:44 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

I ran more numbers for resistance of 100ft run (50ft each way) of various gauges copper wire, based on resistivity of copper.

If relays draw 1 amp I wouldn't go less than 18 gauge. 5% max volt loss comes to mind as a wiring rule of thumb.
If draw one amp thru 100ft of 18 gauge you drop .623 volts, which is 5.2% of 12V.
As a comparison 15 amps thru 14 gauge would drop 3.7V which is only 3% of 120 volts.

wire .......ohms
gauge ....per 100ft
===================
24 ,,,,,,,, 2.51
22 ,,,,,,,, 1.58
20 ,,,,,,,, 0.99
18 ,,,,,,,, 0.623
16 ,,,,,,,, 0.39
14 ,,,,,,,, 0.246
12 ,,,,,,,, 0.155
10 ,,,,,,,, 0.0975
8 ,,,,,,,,,, 0.0612
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:16 PM
grif grif is online now
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Edmonds View Post
Jack's chart looks about right to me, but there is no such thing as too much copper. I've had a few people in my sound career that thought that using too-large conductors on speakers would overload the amplifier!!

Dave Edmonds
Only if it's not Oxygen Free ;-) Dobie goes to iron hands now
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  #42  
Old 03-04-2013, 09:44 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Thanks to everyones suggestions, I got the rope through the conduit. I started with nylon twine then moved up to the 1/4 inch nylon/poylester 90 lb test rope.

In the few days I will have that wire in there.

I will keep you all up to date thanks for your help.
Regarding the relay wire, I will be testing the draw first.

Leon- to late to run direct burial. Next time.

Kevin K . Right! I only have an ac clamp meter. I was refering to the new china made digital gauges I bought for the gen.
Xeonpony-I appreciate all posting all the research results.
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  #43  
Old 03-05-2013, 02:20 AM
Xeonpony Xeonpony is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

For AC the general rule is no more then 5%, in low voltage DC circuits the rule is not more so then 3%.

Anderson, My pleasure to be of assistance!
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  #44  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:52 PM
DrCharles DrCharles is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

I just set my 2.5AJ in the "Hobbit House" (as one of my friends dubbed my 4' x 3' generator shed) this chilly afternoon, hooked it up and tried it out. It starts, runs and stops just fine from the control panel in the basement... in a single 3/4" conduit, I pulled three #10 THHN for the power and a VNTC #18/4 cable for the controls (+12 battery, battery ground, start, stop).

Total cable length from the control panel to the generator is about 80'. The only voltage-drop issue is when the 1 hp blower motor for the wood furnace blower kicks in... but that's got nothing to do with the remote-start wiring, of course.

(I decided to run the +12 too, even though the start and stop switch contacts connect to ground because: I can now monitor the battery voltage from the control panel; keep the batteries trickle-charged from an outlet in the basement; and use it to power a small lamp until the generator is running).
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  #45  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:02 AM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

Can either run large enough wires to carry Stock relay currents , or just get a pair of small relays that take very little coil current (300 ohm coil at 12V draws only~.040amp).
Use the new relays to switch power to the stock onan relays. Then you can run real small wire. Some car relays have low draw like this (junk yard is cheap)
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  #46  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:46 AM
Xeonpony Xeonpony is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

well good to know
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  #47  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:32 PM
AndersonMillTexas AndersonMillTexas is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

DrCharles- Nice idea about the lamp and the trickle charger. I will be putting a dedicated trickle charger on mine. As far as the lamp, my best friends are LED's.

UPDATE: I successfully pulled the (4) 8 gauge through the 360 degrees and 50' of conduit. Thanks to those that advised on using the vacuum and rope.

I discovered two things about what I did. I attempted to use products I already own.Fishing line and prepackaged cheapo rope.
#1. Using fishing line breaks (20 pound).
#2. Buying rope in a package that is folded causes kinks.

I used masons nylon line (pounds 50) and pulled through 1/4 inch 100 pound Nylon rope. It was bought off the reel so it did not have folds. Speaking about ropes. The new Kevlar/nylon by Dupont is amazing.

I have two empty conduits left.

UPDATE: just got 14" of snow and have been losing power, So it will be a few days before I pull wires for remote switch.

Thx again.
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  #48  
Old 03-08-2013, 01:26 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Recommendation Wire Gauge for Remote Start Switch

On a 125 ft run of pvc pipe , I used a small rag, a 7 pound monofiliment fishing line , that pulled a soft flexable ~200 pound line, then pulled home depot tie down rope(~1/8 inch stuff they have for free at the exit door), that pulled fat 1/2 inch dia TV coax .

The tv coax came off a reel , so it had a spirl to it. That would push against the inside of the 2"dia pipe, and make friction drag. So I straightened it out before I put it into the pipe. Seemed to pull easy. During pipe installation for curves I made long gental curves by heating the ridgid pvc pipe so it became soft like boiled spaghetti , only used one store bought curved 90 deg peice.
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