gardner electric mfg. co.

hello,I found an old transformer in a barn that had hit and miss engines and old generators in it also.I wonder if anybody has ever heard of this company before and if they made any other products such as generators?I would also like to know if this can be used with old generators in any way or if it is for use with just regular electricity from the wall?

the tag reads (TRANSFORMER),(ser.no.62667,cat.no.5-30L)(VA-150),(MA-30),(cycles-60),(110volts to 5000),(GARDNER ELECTRIC MFG. CO.),(EMERYVILLE,CALIF.U.S.A.),(CENTER OF SECONDARY GROUNDS).

do you guys know what VA-150 and MA-30 means?

thanks for your help with this...schramm...

p.s. This is probably a long shot but is their a way to date this by the serial # or by any other feature on the tag? THANKS!

[Harry]

LOOK but DON'T TOUCH !!!!

It might be equivalent to a pole transformer and operated backwards, you have enough potential to draw an unexpected arc and TO BE LETHAL. Most likely is it a neon lamp transformer (from 110VAC to voltage high enough to ignite a neon tube.) Given the proper safety precautions, it could also be used in a bug whacker. VA-150 means about 150 watts and MA-30 means 30 milliamperes. Still enough to knock you across the room!

This information is given based on the disclaimer statement below. Be sure to read it all!


DISCLAIMER

I fully agree with Harry on the be damn careful thing here. I've run across that manufacturer before, and it may well be a neon sign transformer. Main thing I'd add, is before you go to playing with toys like this, especially connecting them to power is that you meg them out. The simple use of a Megger can and will save you a lot of time explaining to the clerk behind the counter at the emergency room what you did to get there.

Yes, you have a neon sign transformer. The statement in particular that the secondary winding is center tapped and grounded indicates this. That way the maximun voltage to ground is kept at 2500 volts from either of the two high voltage terminals. This transformer has many times the bite of an ignition coil if you get across any of the high voltage terminals. An electric chair runs somewhere around 2000 to 2500 volts to execute the convicted but with more current than 30 miliamperes. 30 miliamperes is more than enough to kill someone and the 2500 to 5000 volts insures that a good connection is not necessary to do the job.

This is not something for the inexperienced person to be playing around with. On the other hand, for the scientifically inclined it would make one heck of a good "Jacobs Ladder" demonstration power supply among other things.

A lot of good citizens have been killed by a lot less voltage, 110 Volts for example.

Thanks for the responses guys I would never have been able to guess it was for a neon light,but then also I dont have a lot of knowledge of electrical parts.I just like old generators and electric motors.Thanks for the explanation of VA and MA,Harry,and for the warning to be very careful.

Whenever I pick it up I just hold the box and stay away from the wires,but could this device be harmful even though it isnt connected to any power source?

Russ,what is a jacobs ladder device you were talking about?

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to explain this to me...schramm...

[Harry]

¿>Whenever I pick it up I just hold the box and stay away from the wires, but could this device be harmful even though it isn't connected to any power source?

Usually, it's large capacitors that you have to be careful of even when not connected to a power source, but I have to digress a bit. I've spent the better part of my life in this stuff, the last of which included a three phase fed 6500 VDC power supply with a 2 amp output. Before that I have worked inside the cabinet of a three phase fed 20,000 VDC at 1 amp supply. (These in broadcast transmitters.) One soon learns to shut down the power, break open feed line contactors and GROUND OUT EVERYTHING before entering! If you don't learn that right off, you deal with that Wolf on the previous post. In my teen age years, I had 400 VDC go up one arm and down the other from ham radio equipment. That was the last and hopefully the only time.

Anyway, you got us all charged up on electrical safety here, but nothing wrong with that!

A jacobs ladder is a pair of vertical electrodes set narrow at the bottom and wide at the top, with a spark climbing up between them, like back in Frankenstein's lab. As long as there isn't any power going to the input, it's fairly safe, unless you drop it on your toe, that will hurt like hell! Those grounded centertap neon transformers can get a bit snotty when energised though, especially if the ground to the case isn't good. A lot of the older ones didn't come with 3 wire cords, and they were real fun on damp days.

A Jacobs Ladder consist of a pair of wires connected securely to the two high voltage connections of the high voltage transformer. The wires are bent together close enough near the terminals to allow a spark to jump the gap between them. This is as close to the terminal end as possible. The wires are made streight and angle away upwards away from the terminal end which is the lowest point.

What happens is that the spark jumps the gap between the two wires at their closest point at the bottom end, and as the arc quickly heats up, the arc will start moving up between the slowly widening gap between the two wires. At some point the gap will become too wide to sustain the arc at the voltage provided, and it extinguishes itself. Immediately thereafter, the arc re-establishes itself at the bottom again where the gap is the narrowest and starts climbing the two wires again. The process repeats itself as long as the power is applied.

It makes a nice nasty sounding spark impressing most people who have never seen one in operation. A couple pieces of brass welding rod will work fine. The two pieces of rod attached to the two high voltage terminals are bent into the shape of the letter "V" and the distances between to two sides of the "V" is adjusted so that an arc once established at the bottom, will extinguish itself near and before reaching the top. Otherwise the arc will just continue at the top and not start climbing the Jacobs Ladder over automaticaly each time.

For safety's sake, to prevent burning up the neon sign transformer, connect a socket for a 60 watt, or so, incandescent lamp in series with one of the primary power leads. If the secondary high voltage side becomes shorted, the lamp in series with the primary will limit the primary current to a value low enough to prevent burning up the transformer windings.

This is not a good play thing for little children to be left alone with. They like to grab for the nice noisy and bright arc thus, leading immediately to serious problems with their health. Other wise, it is a blast to watch for a while until it becomes boring, as the picture and the program is always the same.

Adult supervision is a must!

Thanks to Franz and Russ Hughes for the explanations of a jacobs ladder, definitely something I would like to see but would not attemp myself at this time at least until I can get a better knowledge of electrical components and how they work together.

And to Harry for talking about the safety issue. I wouldnt want anybody to attemp anything that they dont know how to do and get hurt because of something we discuss on here. So I urge everyone who hasn't read the disclaimer to do so and understand what it means and to be careful when dealing with (toys) that can potentially kill you when not handled properly. In my opinion you cant be too safe and anytime someone thinks a warning is in order please put in your post.

Thanks again for sharing all your knowledge with us, thats what makes this such a great place to go...schramm...

Anyone have a wiring diagram or owners manual for a Monkey Wards Powerlite 3kw generator. It is powered by a two cylinder air cooled Onan,direct coupled, 115 volts AC, 60 cyls. Date of manufature ???? Thanks