What would you do? (eBay Discussion)

[Smoke]

Yesterday I listed an old antique railroad lock on ebay, Today I get a question from another ebay member as folllows. The lock that you have listed is "Fantasy" Produced in large numbers in far east many are listed throughout ebay. I searched locks on ebay but I have found none like the lock that I have listed. Is this guy for real or is he a fake. I bought this lock at a Fire Co. Auction and it appears to be authentic as far as I am concerned, maybe the guy is right, I don't know. I have seen enough rusted junk in my life and it looks vintage to me. My question, since I have no bids on the lock at this time, should I leave it listed or should I take it off. What would you do. Ebay # 6131059466 Thanks Smoke

[Chris Kirk]

Smoke -

Leave it on. If it's a real antique, it will sell. If it's not, it won't. I know that that's profound, but it's the truth. Also, who knows what this guy's motivation is? Maybe he's hoping you'll take it off, and then he'll offer to "take it off your hands". I don't know what you're asking for the lock, but Ebay is the best way to determine an item's value. The most you have to lose is the posting fee, and you have everything to gain if you sell it. Just my $.02. Good luck.

Chris

[BobRR]

Smoke I agree if you believe it to be orginal I would leave it on and let the bidders decide. BobRR

[Dick Hamilton]

I agree Smoke. Leave it on and see what happens. Maybe the guy who sent the inquiry has a bunch of the repos and wants you out of the action. Dick in the cold, cold Finger Lake Region of NYS.

[Bill Schaller]

This is a tricky area, but you should stop the auction until you know this item is real. If you sell this item as real, and it is not, you have committed fraud, and you may cause some new collector to be burned. If it is fake, the only one who will not know is a novice, and you will be the one to intruduce this novice to the world of fakes, and rip offs. My first thought is it is a fake, it looks kind of repro to me, especially the name tag. Saying "and it appears to be authentic as far as I am concerned" is what a con man would say. find out for sure, and if it is fake, use it on your fence. If it is real, sell it on ebay.

[Bill Schaller]

http://railroadcollectors.org/pgFakes_Locks.shtml

this took me ten seconds on google. I think your lock is shown.

[Jim Young]

Smoke,

Also in the "for what it's worth" category, I believe the Rock Island Line was offically the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific RR. That may be in line with the suggestion that bogus road names are mentioned as being used in the piece on fakes. I dunno...

Jim Young

[BobRR]

Bill S. OH MY! FRAUD!! Give me a break! 1st off he thinks its original and 2nd its a auction?( they dont say buyer beware for nothing) I would sell it as I believe it is.If you have anything you think is old do you have paper work to prove it? BobRR

[Craig A]

As it has no bids, MODIFY your auction with the details you posted above: how, where and when acquired and THEN let the buyer beware. After all, YOU bought it!! Craig

[Bill Schaller]

BobRR. He has now been informed by 3 people it is not real. The lock is in a book on fake locks. It has a fake RR name on it. To claim it is "nice early" and "Nice old lock" is probably false. Buyer beware only works if it is not falsely described. Smoke does not know it is old. Smoke is trying to do the right thing here, or else he would not have asked our opinion. The only ones that would fall for this is a novice. If someone does buy this, the first time he shows his real, expensive, RR lock to a fellow collector, he is going to be really mad. And then he will have a legitimate complaint about the seller, and Ebay, and about ripoffs. Smoke may end up with negative feedback, that will say he has sold fake items. The guy who wrote him to say it is a repro will probably notify the buyer it is fake. If I bought this lock off ebay, and then saw that it was in a book on fake locks, yes, I would report this as a fraud and theft by swindle. I would do everything I could to dog him on ebay, and get him kicked off. the same thing has happened to me in the past, and I think Smoke should spread the word about the auctioneer that is selling fake, Chinese made junk as real. It was no mistake it was in the auction Smoke bought it at.

[Smoke]

I added an Update line to the lock stating that the lock could be a reproduction or fake. I'll leave it up to the bidders to decide. I didn't receive any bids on the thing anyway so I'm sure that the lock collectors are well aware of these things. Anyway, thanks to all who replied. The damn thing still looks original to me but who knows, and who will care in 20 years anyway. When I was at the Fire Co. Auction, the same seller had a bunch of old cast Iron rusted antique cars, motorcycles and door stops, yes, they looked real to me too and a lot of people were buying them up. If the thing is fake, it's a shame that these worthless than a dead sparkplug, idiots will stoop this low to make a dishonest buck. Thanks Again for the replies, it helped me decide what to do. Smoke

[Bill Schaller]

Smoke, I am sorry you got burned. This is something that happens a lot with dishonest auctioneers. It is really tricky if they don't get too greedy, and add only a few items to some old ladies estate. Everyone there will think the old lady had the item their whole life. I have been burned in every catagory of collectable I have started to collect. I am to the point that I basically collect things that either can't be faked, or are so eclectic no one would bother.

[J ohn]

The lock pictured on ebay you have for sale appears more original than the picture in book from earlier post. Notice fake does not have name riveted on & the hasp is not centerd exact on rivet upper right. Put both pics side by side on screen & you can view difference. Just my eyesight opinion.

[BobRR]

Bill he has now been "informed by three people" none of which have shown any proof that they know any more about locks then I do!(which isnt much)But everything that Smoke has said so far is nothing close to fraud!!If you buy at a auction or anyplace for that matter, if someone answers all YOUR questions honestly(Fraud?) You as the BUYER are responsible to know what your buying.Unless your some laywer that thinks the only one responsable is the other guy!Of coarse if its real and he sells it for 10.00 bucks are you going to tell him he didnt charge enough?BobRR

[Bill Schaller]

the picture of the lock in the fake book is the exact same lock, with a different name punched on the brass tag, and the tag now attached with rivets. look at the rivets. If the expert who wrote that book looked at that lock, I bet he would tell you it is brand new. here is what he should say, right from the fake railroad collectors page "Beware of statements like "..don't know if this is old or not," particularly on internet auction sites. This could be a hedge by the seller who suspects an item is a fake but who wants to be able to counter demands for a refund by saying that authenticity was never guaranteed in the first place.

in smoke's description he says the lock is old. The fact that the same lock is pictured in a fake lock book tells me it is a new fake. Can smoke honestly say the lock is old. Of course not. He says it is old, and vintage. if it is not, then he is falsely describing the item, which is fraud. He believed that when he bought it. he got screwed by the auction company. But, as you pointed out, I am not an expert. The fact that no one bid on it is telling. the fact he got two keys with it is a surprise by itself. here is another picture of a fake lock. http://www.railroadiana.org/pgFakes.shtml Take a very good look at the two side by side.

So, Bob do you think it is old or new? would you stake your good name on it?

[Bill Schaller]

hey, bob and smoke, don't take that reply the wrong way. I don't want to imply that any one here would do any thing dishonest. but, I think the auctioneer knew that he had a repro lock, and took advantage. Ebay and the internet is being ruined by scams and lowlifes, and I get mad about it all the time. And then innocent people like smoke get ripped off, and he might now be stuck in the middle. maybe I am wrong, but if the lock is real, it's value isn't going to drop while smoke checks it out with someone who knows about locks.

[Smoke]

Hi Bill, no thin skin here. I can tell that Bob RR is a reasonable man and I think I can speak for him as well. Thats why this board is called a discussion board. whatever we post, is open for discussion. I think many viewers here got a good education on this topic, I know I did. I think we can put this lock issue to rest now and get busy with our main reason for being here. Engines, Engines and more Engines. Thanks Again, Smoke