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Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions


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  #1  
Old 02-06-2005, 08:35:12 PM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
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Default Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Hi, I just picked up my first Eclypse engine from a dear friend who knew I coveted his Eclipse for some time and promised me first chance for it when he decided to part with it. I am thankfull that he remembered me with this engine. It will always be special for me because it was once his.

Anyway, it has battery, buzz coil and spark plug ignition. I have had it running but I want to be sure that I don't cause any unnecessary wear by running it for prolonged times without proper lubrication or with improper timming.

I would like to know the correct way that the timming switch works. My engine has a round headed bolt sticking out of a collar on the cam shaft. This bolt head pushed on a pin in a micro switch which was mounted in the appropriate position to time it to run.

This arrangement had several problems. Number 1 was that the micro switch was no longer any good and the number 2 problem was that while starting the engine it had a tendency to kick back. It would be better if it could be started with the spark retarded then advance it to run with the best efficency.

I know how I can accomplish this my way but I would first like to see how they were made in the first place by Fairbanks Morse.

I solved the micro switch problem by using the plastic switch as an insulator and screwing a strip of copper around the switch body make the contact with the bolt head. It is hard to start this way because it wants to kick back. This was ok just to hear it run but I would like to have a better and perminant solution like a movable contact for advanced and retarded timing.

My other concern has to do with lubrication. This engine obviously has a drip oiler. What does it oil and what is a safe level of the oil in the crank case. Does the oiler oil the Main bearing, the connecting rod, the wrist pin, the camshaft or are some of these parts oiled by splash or some other way?. Is there an overflow or drain to remove excess oil from the cranlcase? In other words what should I know about operating this engine to prevent anything going wrong.

I see that there seems to be a priming cup hole in the mixer but it seems to be plugged up. Does a valve type primming cup screw into this hole or should there be a small hole in it to allow the gas to dribble into the mixer?

Any starting or running and maintainence tips will be greatly appreciated.

I am including several photos so that you can see what I am talking about.

Thanks for any help you can give me. Dick
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2005, 10:11:02 PM
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Doug Kimball Doug Kimball is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Dick,
They will probably reply but check Patrick Livingstone's site(get it in Member's Page) and on Harry's Old Engine site. They both have good Eclipse info.

http://www.old-engine.com/eclipse.htm
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Old 02-07-2005, 01:33:30 AM
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Larry Evans Larry Evans is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Dick,

As a temporary measure while the Bosch AB 34 mag was being rebuilt, my brother rigged up this for a Fairbanks 3 hp. Z. He used two different feelers wired with a switch for a "start" and a "run" condition. When he added the second feeler it got rid of the kicking back while starting problem. I know it is quite different from your engine but you might be able to work out something using the same concept. Besides the picture below there are several on my web site showing it at:
http://www.oldengine.org/members/levans/fm3hp-5/

Regards,
Larry
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Old 02-07-2005, 07:01:00 AM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Thanks Doug, I looked at Patrick's web pages and got quite a bit of information and Harry always has good information.

Thanks Larry, I did a 1 1/2 hp Fairbanks Morse Throttle governed Z for Larry Nelson where I made the wood timer block similar to yours but where it could be slid front to rear to adjust the timming. Your system is probably better as the switch will make the timming be the same each time you advance it, where as my setup was so variable that it was hard to get exactly the same timming each time you advanced it.

I am still in the dark as to how the lubrication works on the engine. I go by the old addage "If it ain't broke don't fix it." so I don't want to take it apart to see inside as I have great faith in the workmanship of it's previouse owner.

I also would like to see a picture of an original timmer for this engine. I have read that most of the engines sold in the US were battery equipped while the engines sold overseas were equipped with magnitos.

Someone must have as picture out of a manual showing the timmer. If you have one please post it as I can make almost anything look and function like the original.

This engine is on a cart and may stay that way but I would like to see some original skids for the 1 A Eclipse.

Thanks again for any help. Dick
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:09:53 AM
Ken Erman Ken Erman is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

I have some pics of the manual on my Webshots site you can grab. Maybe they will help, Patrick scanned them and sent them to me.

http://community.webshots.com/album/32992164tEoDXr/1

Mine is apart right now... I think the wrist pin is a little sloppy and it has me concerned. It's apart right now but i don't have any time to work on it.

Ken in CT.
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Old 02-07-2005, 02:17:58 PM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Thanks Ken,

I found your site last night and copied all of the pages. I found the timmer picture on em1004 and tried to zoom in to see the detail. Unfortunately the zoomier I got the fuzzier the detail got.

Thanks, Dick
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Old 02-07-2005, 11:49:22 PM
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Patrick M Livingstone Patrick M Livingstone is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Hi. The timer blade should be mounted on the govenor detent (on the hole to the right of the picture). You can see the contact pin on the cam gear. When the engine is missing the timer blade is clear of the pin so acts as a spark saver. As far as I know there is no adjustment on the ignition timing for starting.
My 1A does not have the battery ignition parts fitted as it is a magneto engine.

I will see that I can find in my books as all my Eclipse engines are set up for magnetos.
My F-M Engines
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Old 02-08-2005, 03:55:47 AM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Thanks to all of you for your timming Information.

After again reviewing the information you have given me I finally see how the original timming worked and will make and install the timmer blade onto the detent lever with an insulator as original and I will replace the missing timming pin on the cam gear.

It seems like I will have to retime the cam gear to get it to fire at the proper time. When I had it running it didn't seem to have much power and was somewhat tempermental to keep running.

Now if someone can answer my questions as to the lubrication of this engine I think I will be set.

What is the proper oil level in the crankcase? and how are the crank, cam, connecting rod and wrist pin lubricated?.

Thanks for your help. Dick
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Old 02-08-2005, 08:16:06 AM
Ken Erman Ken Erman is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Dick,

As far as i know they are lubricated from the drip oiler. My therory is that the oiler entry into the cylinder is at a height where it can travel into the wrist pin to keep it lubricated. I think the rod end is lubricated by splash. There is a plug in the base, not too far from the bottom, that serves as the high oil mark.
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Old 02-09-2005, 02:34:47 AM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Thanks Ken and All,

I printed out Patrick's manuals and read that one of the features listed is splash lubrication so that just about answers all of my questions.

I think I will split the case this weekend and look at all within just to be sure that all's well in there. Better safe than sorry.

This engine seems to be in exceptional condition and I would like to keep it that way.

If anyone has any other tips please let me know.

Thanks again, Dick
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Old 02-09-2005, 02:42:03 AM
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Hi Dick, I try not to run too much oil in my No.1 Eclipse as it is fairly worn and throws most of it out. I tend to keep the crankcase fairly dry and just run the drip oiler a little faster.
If you are going to split the engine the easiest way is to sit the engine upside-down. The safest way to remove and install the piston is to leave it attached to the crank and lift the lot out. This is the safest way to prevent a big problem. If the piston is allowed to go too far up the bore there is a lip which the top ring will pop into. Once this happens the piston is almost impossible to remove unless you can break the ring via the valve port!
i have not done this myself but I have heard of it hapening

My 1A Eclipse
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Old 02-09-2005, 03:09:02 AM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Thanks Patrick, Your my man for Eclypse info. Dick
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Old 02-16-2005, 12:20:40 AM
Dan Baalman Dan Baalman is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

For the Fairbanks collector there is a nice parts service cabinet on ebay#3874677318 Take a look Dan
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Old 02-16-2005, 08:09:27 AM
Ken Erman Ken Erman is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

I am at a decision point in putting mine back together and i need some advice.

How tight should the top end of the connecting rod for the wrist pin? Mine is loose enough to move side to side along the length of the pin. It doesn't feel sloppy, but it does slide easily. The wrist pin is a tight fit in the piston. What kind of clearances should there be here?
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:28:17 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: Fairbanks Morse 1-A Eclipse Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Erman
I am at a decision point in putting mine back together and i need some advice.

How tight should the top end of the connecting rod for the wrist pin? Mine is loose enough to move side to side along the length of the pin. It doesn't feel sloppy, but it does slide easily. The wrist pin is a tight fit in the piston. What kind of clearances should there be here?
Ken:

Side-to-side clearance between the little end of the rod and the wrist pin bosses on the piston is not at all critical.

The fit in the piston should be tight and the fit to the little end bushing on the rod should be snug. A new pin and bushing fit is snug enough that, when the piston is held horizontal, the rod will barely fall of it's own weight.

If the fit is loose but not loose enough for you to be able to feel any slack, it should be okay. For a non-working slow running engine, it can be pretty loose. The only thing you'll notice is some wrist pin knock.

Hope this helps.

Take care - Elden
http://home.cybertron.com/~edurand
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