Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Articles] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Chat] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] - [eBay Tools]

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Antique Gas Engine Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Antique Gas Engine Discussion

Thermal siphon cooling


this thread has 7 replies and has been viewed 1900 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-06-2005, 12:15:49 AM
bimjy bimjy is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Vanlue, Ohio, USA
Posts: 100
Thanks: 7
Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts
Default Thermal siphon cooling

I am plumbing the cooling system on my South Penn. I understand the thermal siphon system and know that the hot water returning to the tank from the engine must discharge into the tank below the water level in the tank or the siphon will not work. My question is, must the pipe from the engine back to the tank run uphill or could it lay level or possibly drop down a little?
Thanks Jim Hunter
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 03-06-2005, 12:22:28 AM
Harry Harry is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sarasota, Florida USA
Posts: 5,452
Thanks: 302
Thanked 9,008 Times in 1,480 Posts
Images: 311
Default Re: Thermal siphon cooling

This was one of our feature articles a while back. Your answer may be here. If not, maybe someone will pitch in.

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showth...t=thermosiphon
__________________
-- Harry Engines Videos Photos
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-06-2005, 12:36:28 AM
Craig A's Avatar
Craig A Craig A is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 14,307
Thanks: 13,784
Thanked 17,705 Times in 5,300 Posts
Images: 18
Default Re: Thermal siphon cooling

A 10-20 Titan uses thermosyphon cooling and discharges ABOVE the water level...WAY above, in fact, so they'll run hot for burning kerosene. If you want a continuous flow it will have to discharge below the water line.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-06-2005, 12:43:34 AM
Jim McIntyre's Avatar
Jim McIntyre Jim McIntyre is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mooresville, Indiana, USA
Posts: 3,256
Thanks: 517
Thanked 1,582 Times in 939 Posts
Default Re: Thermal siphon cooling

Assuming you are talking about a non-percolating system, my view is that there are two crucial things: First, as you say, the hot water pipe from top of the engine to the top of the tank must be submerged below the water level of the tank. Second, this line must pitch uphill from the engine to the tank. Hot water is lighter than cold, and must be allowed to go up.

I can't see what difference the pitch of the lower line (uphill, downhill, or level) would make. To use the full capacity of your cooling tank, it does need to connect to the tank near the bottom, rather than part way up the side.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-06-2005, 12:51:48 AM
Bob Ronning's Avatar
Bob Ronning Bob Ronning is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Somonauk, Illinois, USA
Posts: 771
Thanks: 645
Thanked 389 Times in 193 Posts
Images: 4
Default Re: Thermal siphon cooling

the the hot water returning to the tank from the engine does not have to discharge below the water level in the tank . But you can if you want to. the water level in the tank must be higher than the cylinder that you are cooling. The pipe from the engine back to the tank can run uphill or it could lay level or drop down a little. Hot water rises so as the engine produces heat the water will start to rise. The water has to almost boil to move if you outlet is above the water level. If your outlet is below the water level the water will move at a lower temperature. Bob Ronning
P.S. now what was that about making tea?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-06-2005, 07:30:47 AM
bimjy bimjy is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Vanlue, Ohio, USA
Posts: 100
Thanks: 7
Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: Thermal siphon cooling

I think that since I will never really "work" this engine the hotter operating temp won't be needed. Maybe if the pipe is below the water level in tank the constant flow of water will actually keep the engine cooler longer?? I'm new to this addiction,can these engines overheat and ruin something or is it ok to have almost boiling hot coolant for several hours on end? After reading these excellent posts and thinking on it I think that maybe if my return pipe runs downhill a bit I could get an air pocket in it and that may interrupt the constant flow????
Thanks again for all the help! Jim
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-06-2005, 11:50:28 AM
Patrick McNallen Patrick McNallen is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,250
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Thermal siphon cooling

Personally, I like the "full" thermo-syphon system for gas and gasoline engines. A kerosene or semi-deisle engine might do better with the "semi" thermo-syphon or percolater system, which allows a quick warm up and higher running temperature without any need of a thermostat With a full thermo-syphon, you need the water level about 7" or more above your outlet pipe, and it is a good idea to have the outlet pipe slope slightly upward toward the tank. You don't want any air traps or downsloping sections in the outlet pipe. The best system for any engine is one with a small circulating pump, since this will allow a uniform cylinder temperature. Both the percolator system and the thermo-syphon system will allow the bottom of the cylinder on a horizontal engine to remain cold for a long time while the upper part of the cylinder is hot. Eventually, the water entering the cylinder from the tank will get warm, but there is always a temperature gradient from bottom to top. A smaller tank can reduce this problem. With a circulating pump, the water and the engine warm up much more evenly. Gas and gasoline engines ideally need to run about 180 to 200 degrees. Kerosene or semi-deisles need to run about 200 to 210, and they need to warm up quickly and evenly.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-06-2005, 12:18:14 PM
Bob Fultz Bob Fultz is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Clarksburg, West Virginia
Posts: 42
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Images: 4
Default Re: Thermal siphon cooling

I agree with Bob Ronning.An elderly pumper told me that as long as the outlet pipe is about 6" above the cylinder, its doesn't hurt for the water to boil as this is what makes it circulate. I have a slight rise on mine and an ell pointing down on the end. This keeps the water from purculating into someones face. I set one up with about a 2' pipe out of the cylinder and a inverted mesh screen cone over the tank. I liked it as you can see if the water is circulating.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
15.0 JC Cooling Air Flow pcbye Onan Generators 5 09-10-2007 03:59:37 PM
Aircraft Cooling Fan From WW II Charlie Allen Antique Engine Archives 0 10-23-2004 10:46:41 PM
Cooling needs???? Doug Siems Antique Engine Archives 1 02-27-2002 08:34:27 PM
Using Oil For Cooling Bill in PA Antique Engine Archives 8 01-20-2002 06:39:23 AM
4HP IHC victor cooling ?? Erik Larsen Antique Engine Archives 0 09-07-1999 04:18:38 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:09:02 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277