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Antique Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Antique Gas Engine Discussion

Got Gasoline?


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  #1  
Old 03-31-2005, 10:39:54 PM
Hank Czerwick Hank Czerwick is offline
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Default Got Gasoline?

Trying to get ready for the first show of the year here in Upstate New York. The Marathon Maple Sugar Fest. So trying to get something ready to show here and I've got two engine that both have the same symptoms. They both have fresh "fuel" everythings been dried out and cleaned. I've used two buzz coils both very hot with freshly charged batteries.

The engines start and run fine for about 3-4 minutes. Then the Hits start to loose their crisp sound to them and the exhaust starts to soot up. After a minute or two of this they finaly quit running. You can try to start them and they might pop once or twice. I'm getting lots of liquid coming from the bottom of the cylinder like I've left the oiler on overnight but that's not the case. The liquid is black and dosen't feel like oil or smell like gas. The engine has no coolent in it as the temps are only in the 40's here. The engine is not warming up as a matter of fact after running like above I can take the spark plug out and it's not even warm! The plug will be very wet and not smell like gas. If you put the plug in the vise and heat it with a torch it wil catch fire after a while and burn like a candle for a few minutes.

My theroy is, and I'm gonna go test it in a few minutes is that I'm not getting warm enough to vaporise this "fuel" that they are selling us. The engines are running on the Highly volatile part of the fuel and the additives are being condensed on the cold iron until they build up and choke the engine out. Gonna go point my salamander heater at one of the engines and warm it up a bit and see if it runs. Being careful to not set fire to myself of course. If this proves to work I'll go buy some Coleman Fuel to run this weekend.
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Old 03-31-2005, 11:01:35 PM
Hank Czerwick Hank Czerwick is offline
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Default Re: Got Gasoline?

Got the engine warm enough to get it started again but it's so fouled out that my experiment will have to contiune tomorrow morning. Going to pick up some Coleman fuel on the way home from work and try that. Off to work I go!

Hank
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Old 03-31-2005, 11:14:41 PM
BobRR BobRR is offline
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Default Re: Got Gasoline?

Hank Sounds like they are flooded.Try turning off the fuel, open choke and try starting with some starting fluid then let it run till dies then try starting your normal way.Make sure your exhaust is not pointing at something you dont want cover with soot when it clears out! Ive had engines that are flooded but will try and run till they suck up more fuel or start to vaporize all the fuel laying in the bottom of cyl. same as yours are doing? BobRR
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Old 04-01-2005, 01:32:21 AM
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Rob Skinner Rob Skinner is offline
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Default Re: Got Gasoline?

Water in the fuel?
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Old 04-01-2005, 12:23:20 PM
Hank Czerwick Hank Czerwick is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Got Gasoline?

Ok, here we go. I've been working on getting a engine to run for longer then 5 minutes since Saturday. The fuel that I was using most reciently was just purchased at the pump and put into a fresh clean container. I bought two gallons and I added one ounce of fuel preservative. Honestly I don't think either of the engines were flooded. I was working as hard a possible to lean them out as I was getting the nasty fluid comeing from the cylinder. Pulling plugs and spinning the flywheels to air them out and starting them with back saver (starting fluid).

Stopped and bought a gallon of Coleman Fuel on the way home. Added one ounce of WD40 to it. I wanted some Marvel Mystery Oil but forgot to buy it. Emptied the fuel tank of one of the engines and fueled up with the Coleman WD40 mix. Fired her up with a little fluid and it ran for 5 or 6 hits. Pulled the flywheels a second time and it took off and ran for at least 45 minutes. Fired strong every time and never "double hit". I did have to lean the mixture out a bit from what I usually run on this engine. I used to be at a half turn of the mixer screw and now I'm down to a quarter turn. Smells nice and dosen't smoke at all.

Honestly I'd like to go back to the first engine that I was trying to get running, a Novo, but In my efforts to get her running I pulled the intake valve cage down and in doing so I ruined the gasket. It would be interesting to see if switching it to Coleman fuel would get her up and going.

Anyhow I'm sold on the Coleman fuel!

Hank
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:19:37 PM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Exclamation Re: Got Gasoline?

In my (not so) humble opinion, you've either got water in the fuel or have a really sorry spark plug.

On the Coleman fuel (otherwise known as naptha), I've done some experiments running my F-M ZC-52 engine on it and the results are encouraging enough that, yesterday, I drained the tank and filled it with naptha into which I'd added a little Marvel Mystery Oil. I'm not sure it will make any difference but it'll slick up the valve stems some.

It started and ran very well. I'll give y'all a report after I get back from the show at Stepher Foster Folk Culture Center State Park (N. Florida) tomorrow.

My initial findings are interesting. The engine starts like always (nice and easy) and idles a little faster. I haven't run it at load yet but think it will do better also due to the low octane of the naptha and the low compression ratio of the engine.

Take care - Elden
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:30:11 PM
D.Smith D.Smith is offline
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Default Re: Got Gasoline?

Hank , I like Elden once had a FMZ and I tried many fuels lying around the shop. This gas we get today is really poor as we all know so dont be afraid to experimemt. You wont hurt your engine for showing. Slow speed, little or no load, and the differnt smells will draw a crowd. Try denatured alcohol, laqure thinner, minerial sprits. I even tried cheap tequilla. Had to run it almost full choke! Did not do well, only 80 proof. D. Smith
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:34:37 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Got Gasoline?

Only problem running coleman fuel - It is hydroscopic : It attracts water. In an unsealed tank, It will create rust from the water in the atmosphere. If you have a few damp days, you are asking for trouble. Also, there is no octane in colemans : It may knock under load in a full sized engine.
Andrew
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Old 04-02-2005, 08:04:36 AM
Joe B
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Default Re: Got Gasoline?

What do ya'll think about using Cam-2 (raceing fuel) in these old engines?
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Old 04-02-2005, 09:51:41 AM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Angry Re: Got Gasoline?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elden DuRand
It started and ran very well. I'll give y'all a report after I get back from the show at Stepher Foster Folk Culture Center State Park (N. Florida) tomorrow.
Well, I hit a snag on the Stephen Foster Park show yesterday when I went to Mapquest. It is 235 miles from here! I can only make it a day trip! Maybe if I was about 40 years younger (and dumber! ) I'd try it but 9-10 hours of driving for about a three hour visit to the show won't work.

As soon as I can get some running time on the butt-buggy, I'll report on naptha as a fuel.

I'm not sure that naptha is hydroscopic (soaks up water from the air). I know most of the alcohols are but would really like to hear from a hydrocarbon expert.

Take care - Elden
http://home.cybertron.com/~edurand
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Old 04-02-2005, 09:58:03 AM
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Andre Blanchard Andre Blanchard is offline
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Default Re: Got Gasoline?

I have not had a bad tank of gas in my vehicles in 20 years. I just started up a 3 HP Briggs (that has not been apart since it was assembled in the late 50's) it had not run in at least a year and a half. It had 1/2 a tank of old gas in it and I did not add any, just opened up the valve and give it a minute to fill the carb, close the choke and it popped about 1/2 way thru the first pull, choke off and it was running on the second pull. The compression is down and it smokes a bit when it first starts but it runs fine.
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Andre' B.
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