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Antique Gas Engine Discussion

coil and battery for ignitor engines


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  #1  
Old 04-17-2005, 10:14:37 AM
Jim Scott
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Default coil and battery for ignitor engines

i know this information is in the archives but all i can find is coil and battery for sparkplug engines.if i remember right it is different for ignitor engines. i have a 3 hp mc cormick that has a rebuilt mag and it is the hardest starting engine i have, it has good compression and is getting fuel all i get is one pop. i have checked the book and all timing on exhaust and ignitor trip seem right. if anyone could help me out i would appreciate it very much. thanks
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Old 04-17-2005, 11:43:37 AM
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George & Helen Myers George & Helen Myers is offline
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Unhappy Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Scott
i know this information is in the archives but all i can find is coil and battery for sparkplug engines.if i remember right it is different for ignitor engines. i have a 3 hp mc cormick that has a rebuilt mag and it is the hardest starting engine i have, it has good compression and is getting fuel all i get is one pop. i have checked the book and all timing on exhaust and ignitor trip seem right. if anyone could help me out i would appreciate it very much. thanks
Why not try this site it may help:
http://www.old-engine.com/magneto.htm

which is more of what Harry offers on his site.

Now how about becoming a Subscriber! Helen
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  #3  
Old 04-17-2005, 01:00:47 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

On an igniter engine, timing is everything! The mag must be at the right spot to give the maximum magnetic flux - that is the power to make the spark when the points open. The igniter must trip at the exact instant that the mag hits peak flux, for the same reasons. The igniter also must trip at the proper time to ignite the charge in the cylender (retarded, at top center). There must be no carbon on the igniter itself. The new unleaded fuel will carry current under compression! Your igniter may make spark out of the engine, but short under compression in the engine. If you do rig up a battery and coil, it must be hooked up independant of the mag, otherwise you will burn out the mag coils. Some igniters are made to operate with the points normally closed - this will rapidly drain youtr battery, and heat up your coil, as well.
Andrew
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:18:40 AM
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Ken Majeski Ken Majeski is offline
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

Yup I agree with everthing Andrew has said. Be sure the lines on the mag shaft and bearing are lined up at the instant the igniter trips.

Also.... Many Mag problems are blamed on igniter problems.... Weak igniter springs and loose pins causing lost motion between springs and anvil and igniter shaft most often being the problem. Sometimes the spring may not wind up far enough to break the points fast enough. Sometimes some Dork has replaced one of the tapered pins with a nail or a cotter pin and that spells trouble. Many times a poor igniter will work OK with a Good coil and battery and fail to work with a low tension mag.

I just ran into the lost motion problem the other day with my new toy ( the 8 PH Fuller & Johnson) Didn't even try and start it untill I had that fixed. There was lost motion due to a worn tapered pin. That problem has bitten me before but never again... Now it's about the first thing I check for...
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Last edited by Ken Majeski; 04-18-2005 at 01:25:52 AM.
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  #5  
Old 04-19-2005, 04:41:30 PM
Jim Scott
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

i pulled the ignitor and cleaned it up put it back together and it started right up. it still wont start pulling the flywheels but will with the crank. for a t.g. engine it runs very slow. im thinking this might be the carbon problem.im going to speed it up and see if i can get the fuel mixture correct. thanks for the help.jim
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Old 04-19-2005, 10:56:57 PM
BobRR BobRR is offline
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

Jim witrh a rotory mag they like to be spun.So you may have to use the crank? BobRR
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Old 04-20-2005, 09:58:07 AM
Orrin Orrin is offline
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

I have a one hourse Mogul with magneto/igniter ignition that was restored by someone who is the best in the business. Even with freshly charged magnets one could try starting it by pulling on the flywheels until they are blue in the face, but it will not cooperate.

The only way to start it is by spinning it. Crank. Belt. Choose your poison. I'm anti-crank, but it is the only practical way to get it going.

Regards,

Orrin
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Old 04-20-2005, 05:40:43 PM
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

I have a 2.5 Associated with a newly charged mag that will start on the first flip almost every time. Am I just lucky?
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Old 04-20-2005, 08:39:49 PM
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

I also had a 2 1/2 Associated that would start with just a pull on the flywheels. It had the later four bolt mag on it. My Fairbanks headless "Z" will only start with a crank if I'm lucky, and the mag has just been charged.

Mike
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Old 04-20-2005, 11:31:43 PM
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

I have a 1 HP Mogul with the incorrect mag. ( L instead of R) It starts easily with a couple flips of the flywheels. Matter of fact I don't have a crank. This would be the same mag as the 1 1/2 or 3 HP M. Of course you can give it a Pretty Good Flip cause it ain't No Monster....

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Old 04-21-2005, 12:38:28 AM
Jim Scott
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

nice engine ken!
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Old 04-21-2005, 01:45:56 AM
BWegher BWegher is offline
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

Compliments to Ken on the Mogul. I'd prefer to see bare metal on the crankshaft extensions.
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Old 04-21-2005, 08:20:11 AM
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

Well, I can't take any Credit/Discredit as the engine is just the way I got it.... It's cost was little more than the Picked over parts models at swap meets.... Cart is not correct either....
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Old 04-21-2005, 09:13:20 AM
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

Well even though this monster is battery start magneto run, I can start it off the mag no problem. And I don't use a crank either. Mag has to be in perfect time to the ignitor and you can't have any serious wear in the ignitor/trip parts.



Cheers! NICK
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Old 04-21-2005, 10:21:35 AM
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by NICK
Well even though this monster is battery start magneto run, I can start it off the mag no problem. And I don't use a crank either. Mag has to be in perfect time to the ignitor and you can't have any serious wear in the ignitor/trip parts.

Cheers! NICK
Ya BUT..... You have Super Adjustable Mag Timing due to the mag gear mounting.... AND have that Faucet to open so most of the Compression escapes so you can turn it Faster....
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Old 04-21-2005, 01:48:37 PM
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

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Originally Posted by Ken Majeski
Ya BUT..... You have Super Adjustable Mag Timing due to the mag gear mounting.... AND have that Faucet to open so most of the Compression escapes so you can turn it Faster....
Yeah it is super adjustable but I've got everything set per the inst book, no additional farting around required. And I don't use that Faucet neither. Once them big flywheels get moving it's real easy to roll right thru comp. 3 turns and she'll take off every time on the mag.

Cheers! NICK
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Old 04-21-2005, 07:56:36 PM
Dick Hamilton Dick Hamilton is offline
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Smile Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

Jim, I have a 1 1/2 hp International M which needs to be started with a battery and coil sometimes. Other times it starts with the crank. Once started it pures like a kitten. I have always wondered if we got it one tooth off the right one. It runs real hot when running. Dick in the cool but beautiful Finger Lake Region of NY.

Last edited by Dick Hamilton; 04-21-2005 at 07:58:26 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-21-2005, 11:02:59 PM
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Default Re: coil and battery for ignitor engines

Dick sounds like your running a little retarded?(timing) BobRR
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