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Antique Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Antique Gas Engine Discussion

Anyone have an HVID?


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  #1  
Old 05-17-2005, 08:11:59 PM
Chris Kirk Chris Kirk is offline
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Default Anyone have an HVID?

Hello -

I'm considering adding an HVID engine to the collection, but I don't know a lot about them. I'm comfortable with gas, and have restored several, gotten more than a few running, hit/miss, as well as more modern ones, i.e. Briggs, Reo, Continental, etc. The one I'm looking at built on a dedicated HVID block, not a converted gas one, so hopefully there won't be the worries of broken cranks, rods, etc...but what else should I know about HVIDs? Are they very hard to start, keep running, maintain? If there's anyone here that has experience with them, please let me know how they've been for you.

Thanks...

Chris
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Old 05-17-2005, 08:34:22 PM
Jeff Conner Jeff Conner is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have an HVID?

Chris,
The Thermoil engines can be finicky beasts. One that has good compression and a good injector is not too hard to start on a warm day. A cooler day, is a bit more difficult, but warm water in the hopper usually solves the problem. Good compression is a real MUST. They tend to run irregular when the injectors are not working properly. They can also be flooded easily with the wrong starting technique causing them to hammer and knock heavily on starting. If flooded too much they can get away from you quickly. Like any other engine however, once you learn the engines likes and dislikes, it won't be much of a problem for you as long as you have a good cranking arm.
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Old 05-17-2005, 08:40:42 PM
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JBarnes JBarnes is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have an HVID?

So, what size and make engine are you looking at? Have you already found one?

I am going to pick up my first one this weekend while at Portland. It's a pretty good sized one - a 10hp St. Marys...

For the definitive Hvid dedicated site go here: Hvid Pages

If you search a little more on his site you'll find even more info not directly linked to on the Hvid pages.

Jason
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Old 05-17-2005, 11:03:00 PM
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Kenny Towne Kenny Towne is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have an HVID?

Like Jeff says...they can be fussy little twerps. The warm water trick works well, even on a warm day. There are many people who also soak a rag with some gasoline and lay it over the intake valve spring so that when she pulls in on the intake cycle, the mixture is a little more flammable and thus ignites easier. I have done this and find it works well. It doesn't need to be soaking wet, all you need is a little whiff. If you really want to impress a hvid guy though, getting one set up so that it will cold start without all this riggamarole will do it. I only know of one that you can just walk up to and crank over and expect it to start.
I have four now, two of which have run in the last year. The 6hp Thermoil is a dream and will run all day long with no more than grease attention. The 4 hp St. Mary's is a pest as the injector is sloppy and feeds in to much fuel sometimes. As Jeff notes, it pounds like the dickens.
At first, I rigged up a 5.5hp Honda knock off as a pony motor to spin it over for starting. A lot of effort but effective. I finally found a crank this winter and will be hand starting it this year. It is without a doubt the best exercise you will get at a show!!!
I have learned how to lap valves to get the seats up to snuff for maximum compression (I like the sound of that!), and have a friend who overhauled his injector on his Brantford to make sure everything was tight there. He also redrilled the cup holes to the proper size as they were much too large and made starting difficult. His now starts very easily as well.
Sounds like you're already familiar wth restoration and these aren't any different, just heavier duty. If you're going to Portland, I believe there will be two nice ones for sale there. I would love to have them but my garage is full! They're a lot of fun and something a little off the beaten path. If you can find one, go for it!

Regards,
Kenny
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Old 05-18-2005, 06:06:34 AM
Harvey Teal Harvey Teal is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have an HVID?

I sure hope Mark Congden chips in here. I have watched him crank his b*lls off to get his Brantford running, takes a lot of determination...I think he used gasoline for primer......but once it's running, it's a sight to see.....he aso has a 6HP that used an IHC L for a pony motor.
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Old 05-18-2005, 08:03:10 AM
Inter Bloke Inter Bloke is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have an HVID?

You would want to be a bit careful using petrol to start one, out here they made thousands of MacDonald engines, loosly copyed from the st Marys I have been told, and stories of starting them with Gas causing a lot of knocking followed by the crankshaft flywheels and rod and piston being pushed out the back of the crankcase and rolling down the river bank where they were pumping water, into the water are fairly common. They were however a very good design, if heavy ,and most gave decades of good service.
I know one bloke with a large one, 10 or 12 HP and he never has any trouble starting it.
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Old 05-18-2005, 09:06:16 AM
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Mark Congden Mark Congden is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have an HVID?

Well yes you have to be VERY carful starting them with gasoline!...but the reason you hear of people blowing them apart is because the just dont have any sence...just think of every drop going into the engine as another drop of "black powder" ...the engine will tell you how much to use...what I find that works the best is to get a squirt bottle that kind of vaporises the gas...(like a windex bottle on "mist")...get her turning over good...hit the release for the compression and give her a sniff while its turning..if nothing happens after a few revs(and your arm is still holding out..lol)..give her another sniff...keep trying this till you see what she likes....sometimes when you get one with low compression..this is the only way to start them...I have belted one with lower compression to another engine one time for about an hour and never fired...was getting fuel good but just not enough compression to get hot enough to fire...gave her a sniff of "the ol potion" and bingo...couple squirts later...she's running on her own ..I wouldnt hesitate for a minute Chris...you are quite often the "show stopper" at a small show...and the smoke and noise these engines produce will send goosebumps up your neck...do your gas engines do that? ..lol..Any help I may be to you Chris...please ask Mark Congden
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Old 05-18-2005, 10:31:35 PM
John Cunningham John Cunningham is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have an HVID?

Hey Chris
I have a Hoag 6 Hp Hvid. I see the other good Hvid owners here with some good suggestions. Keep good tabs on your main and rod bearsings as a Hvid is going to stress them pretty good. Also be sure to use a high temperature grease as the rod bearing gets hot when they run. You do not want any knocking as this is a warning you are overstressing your new pride and joy.
Yes they do really please the crowd at shows with the smoke and noise they put out. I swallowed my pride as I use a pony start motor and a sniff of gas to get her going. Let us know if you need help on the fuel system.
My engine took off at our summer show because a piece of dirt from the fuel tank trapped my fuel admitting valve open. I went for a ride on her as I struggled to shut off the fuel. I put on a fuel filter, cleaned the fuel admitting system and she behaved for the rest of the show.
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Old 05-18-2005, 11:53:45 PM
Luke Luke is offline
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Smile Re: Anyone have an HVID?

Hi all,
I have posted picture of my 5HP McDonald Imperial Diesel open crank which as mentioned in another post is a close thing to the St Marys engine. The trick to starting it is to juct crack the fuel valve slightly to let in a little fuel as it will not even look like firing with too much fuel. Also a blow torch to preheat the air intake tube which runs up into the bottom of the head helps alot. I always pump heaps of oil into the cylinder before starting to assis compression and use a fairly heavy grade oil. These diesels have the best exhaust beat when running well. Luke

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20329
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Old 05-19-2005, 12:10:24 AM
Luke Luke is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have an HVID?

Sorry, having trouble attaching pics. I cannot seem to work it out & am giving up!
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Old 05-23-2005, 09:25:11 AM
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Joel Mosley Joel Mosley is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have an HVID?

I just picked up a 4 HP St Marys HO this weekend. Anyone have a copy of an operators manual and pictures of original carts. Definitely to heavy to drag around on skids.

Thanks
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Old 05-23-2005, 03:07:02 PM
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JBarnes JBarnes is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have an HVID?

Joel - I picked up my 10hp basket case St. Marys this weekend. Did you buy the one Jim White had? If so it was a great looking engine!

If it wasn't that one I have another question for you. Have you found a serial number on it? The one I mentioned above had a 3 digit number stamped in the end of the crank. I saw a 7hp St. Marys Automatic (gas) engine this weekend and it had a 4 digit number stamped in the machined hub of the flywheel right next to the crankshaft. I have yet to find one on mine, but it is rather rusty in those areas.

If you find a manual let me know - I'd love to see it!

Have you had it running yet?

Jason
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Old 05-23-2005, 03:45:54 PM
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Joel Mosley Joel Mosley is offline
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Default Re: Anyone have an HVID?

I bought this engine in Nebraska. I don't have it home yet so I can't help you with your questions. I should have it in a couple of weeks and will let you know.

Joel
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