Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Articles] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Chat] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] - [eBay Tools]

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Antique Gas Engine Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Antique Gas Engine Discussion

More Ignitor/mag questions


this thread has 6 replies and has been viewed 1137 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-29-2005, 09:16:01 AM
Jebaroni's Avatar
Jebaroni Jebaroni is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Greenville NC USA
Posts: 1,955
Thanks: 174
Thanked 584 Times in 431 Posts
Cool More Ignitor/mag questions

Hey guys. Now that I have this new engine, i'll be asking a bunch of questions as I go through it so please bear with me. I just looked at the ignitor on my Alamo and noticed 2 things. First off, there is a flat head set screw type screw going in from the top of the flange. I thought most ignitors had priming cups? Anybody know if the screw is correct or if it should have a priming cup? Secondly, the ignitor was broken in the past and welded up but somewhat poorly as I can still see cracks. I'm going to try and take it off and braze it, but was curious as to whether or not there were common ignitors that were used on many engines such that I may be able to find a used unbroken one should the need arise.

Since it appears that I have the later "new style" webster mag, did they have the decorative cover band over the magnet like the old style did? If so, how does it attach? I think that's one of the most attractive parts to the webster mags is that little shiney brass band.

Thanks for the help as always!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 05-29-2005, 01:10:48 PM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Posts: 1,826
Thanks: 85
Thanked 437 Times in 316 Posts
Default Re: More Ignitor/mag questions

I watched Harry's and eBay for 5 years on a daily basis, searching for 3 hp Alamo parts, and still do. I have seen a couple of brackets like what I presume your's to be, come and go. Frankly, the bidding was somewhat modest probably due to fewer folks needing that style, but it can work both ways.

Wendel's notebook, circa 1993, lists two new-style Webster ignitor/mag brackets for the Alamo engines: A23-P11 and A23-R1. I don't know how they differ but both are said to fit from 1-1/2 hp to 15 hp engines and to use the magneto(s) 1H-2H.

Watch out for the mounting threads, as per my previous post.

Doc Schuster's booklet on the Webster has a photo of the new-style Webster disassembled and laid out. There is no band shown, but I would not say this is conclusive.

Some photos of your stuff would be interesting! If your engine is original, I would suspect that the rocker arm bracket is cast integrally with the head, as per late model 2-1/2 Alamos. I aquired an earlier 2-1/2 hp head that has no integral rocker support which is how my 1920 3 hp is. A little research in a parts book showed that there was, indeed, a change made.

I bought the 2-1/2 hp head because it had an original muffler. It isn't the correct one for a 3 horse, as it is a tad smaller, but it is excellent trading stock, if you get my drift.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-29-2005, 03:05:14 PM
Jebaroni's Avatar
Jebaroni Jebaroni is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Greenville NC USA
Posts: 1,955
Thanks: 174
Thanked 584 Times in 431 Posts
Default Re: More Ignitor/mag questions

Here's a link to my new album of pictures about my Alamo.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v44/je...lamo%20Engine/

You'll notice the particularly bad castings. The top half of the oiler is nickel plated while the sight glass part is missing the glass and is brass. I'm also wondering if the mixer itself is even original (the needle doesn't look "period correct" to me at least) as it carries a 7186 part number?

Again, as the mixer has no choke plate (assuming it is original), then shouldn't the ignitor have a priming cup? As I said earlier, mine just has a set screw as shown in one of the photos. That is also where the ignitor mounting flange brokeoff and was previously welded. I also shot a quick video of it running that I can try to email if you like.

Jeb
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-29-2005, 03:33:55 PM
Ironman Ironman is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 916
Thanks: 256
Thanked 579 Times in 211 Posts
Default Re: More Ignitor/mag questions

Jeb-
All 5 of my late style Webster mag setups just have the slotted screw in the ignitor body. None of mine have a priming cup on them, and in all 5 of them, the screws are IDENTICAL. Also, our 2 1/2 HP Empire (built by Alamo) does not use a choke on the mixer. Just stick your thumb over the inlet on the mixer to choke it. The suction feed fuel system on these engines works great!!!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-29-2005, 06:17:43 PM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Posts: 1,826
Thanks: 85
Thanked 437 Times in 316 Posts
Default Re: More Ignitor/mag questions

Nice engine. It appears to be a repaint. I don't recognize the color and the paint film is quite thin. What little remained of the original paint on my Alamo 3 hp was very thick.

It wouldn't be surprising if the original paint job had been preceded by a coat of filler to smooth over those casting defects and then followed by a thick coat of color.

I don't really know how those castings would have been evaluated back when, but I can say that my 1920 has quite nice castings and looks elegant next to my Fairbanks Morse stuff, which are more massive.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the same original Alamo mixer was used on all of the small hp engines up to and including the 2-1/2 hp. I have a couple of them. I think the knobs on mine differ, slightly.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-29-2005, 06:28:38 PM
Jebaroni's Avatar
Jebaroni Jebaroni is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Greenville NC USA
Posts: 1,955
Thanks: 174
Thanked 584 Times in 431 Posts
Default Re: More Ignitor/mag questions

Could you post a picture of what your mixer needle knobs look like? I will probably keep the mixer as it doesn't appear to be very different from those on the other engines other than not having quite as much of a "J" shape to it, but something about that knob irks me....If it's supposed to be that way, i'll leave it but if not, i'll try and get something that looks a little more appropriate.

Since we've mentioned it, what is that slotted plug in the ignitor for? That, and why is the oil cup on the side that is HARDEST to get to instead of where the seemingly useless slotted plug is?

I agree, it's definately a repaint and I intend on tearing the thing apart and wire wheeling it or soaking it in the electrolysis bath and filling in the uglier defects on the hopper and generally clean things up. However, I kinda like the darker tinge to the blue as opposed to the lighter Jaeger tone of blue. I'd like to see some pictures of your engine to get an idea at least of what proper color is and some paint codes if I can just for comparison.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-29-2005, 11:37:30 PM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Posts: 1,826
Thanks: 85
Thanked 437 Times in 316 Posts
Default Re: More Ignitor/mag questions

From what Ironman says, it sounds like your needle valves are correct. I suppose they all could be replacements but that isn't likely. More likely they would conform to a needle valve used in the "New-style" Webster era.

Since you asked, here is what I have: the silver mixer on the left (and head) are from my 1-1/2 horse R. M. Wade made by Alamo. This mixer uses only the spring to hold position, no hole drilled in the boss for a pointer, and no pointer. (My photo of the backside is a scosh too big, dammit!)

The mixer on the right is poked into a older style 2-1/2 hp Alamo head. It uses a brass pointer that is attached with a brass machine into the boss. (This mixer and head were positioned together just for this photo- I don't know actual pedigree here.)

Both mixers are very similar and both have the number 7180 on one side and 6417 on the other side. Notice that the air inlet holes are quite different in size. I would think hole size differences would be easily compensated for by the amount the needle valve was opened. This mixer number is called out in Alamo or Empire parts books as correct for all the hit and miss engine sizes from 1 hp to 2-1/2 hp, and the mounting holes in these heads are the same.

This is a lot of trivial stuff about Alamo suction style mixers! I hope everyone hasn't been put to sleep! Just wait until I explain that I have figured out at least part of the reason why Alamo Wizard ignitors are (always?) drilled with two sets of holes that look like a mistake until you see that all the others are same way
Attached Thumbnails
alm1.jpg  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Ignitor What Does This Fit? Lauren Antique Gas Engine Discussion 2 12-06-2007 01:19:40 AM
Ignitor Joe Morris Antique Gas Engine Discussion 0 11-12-2007 05:48:47 PM
More ignitor questions Ken Adamson Antique Gas Engine Discussion 2 04-22-2005 10:31:18 AM
Ignitor ID Jason Dahm Antique Engine Archives 3 04-03-2003 12:50:11 AM
Ignitor LOREN W. Antique Engine Archives 1 07-26-2001 10:15:32 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:57:17 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277