Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Articles] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Chat] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] - [eBay Tools]

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Antique Gas Engine Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Antique Gas Engine Discussion

My Word is My Bond.


this thread has 29 replies and has been viewed 3871 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-19-2005, 01:40:58 AM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Temecula, California USA
Posts: 267
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Images: 4
Angry My Word is My Bond.

My Father taught me that my word should be my bond. That is if I say I will do something then have to do my best to do it. My word is a verbal contract guaranted by my honor.

Today I was at a Gas Engine, Tractor and Farm Show here in So. California.

As I was walking around I was approched by a man probably in his 30's who started up a conversation and started asking me questions about my engines.

He then stated that he had a small steam Engine that he wanted to sell or to trade for a small gas engine.

When I asked about the steam engine he stated that he had the engine on the grounds in one of the display buildings and asked if I wanted to see it.

After he led me to the engine I looked it over and said that I would buy it at the price that he mentioned.

He then changed his mind stating that he would rather trade it for a small engine.

He further stated that he had an injury that precluded him from having any large engines. He stated that he had the two model gas engines that were on display there and that he had a Maytag twin cylinder engine.

When I mentioned that I had seven of eight Maytags, both single and twin cylinder he stated that he might be interested in a trade.

We went to the side of this building where there were several of the museum's engines on display and I showed him several single cylinder Maytags identicle to some that I had that I would trade him for the small steam engine.

We shook hands on the deal and made arangements for him to drop off the steam engine and pick up the Maytag engine as he was going to visit his Mother in Temecula where I live anyway and he could do it on his way to his Mothers house.

This whole exchange and agreement was driven by him and I didn't dicker or do any thing but meet his request for the trade.

Shortly thereafter I left the show as my wife who had accompanied me to the show was getting tired and I wanted to clean up the Maytag engine which hadn't been run in several years.

After freshining the fuel and cleaning up the engine which was complete including the air cleaner and muffler nicely painted with starting plate shut off switch and skids. It started and ran strong giving me a good feeling that he would be happy with his end of the deal.

A couple of hours later he called me stating that he had some bad news for me. He further related that he had sold the engine to someone else.

To put it mildly I was Pi__ed.

I told him that If he continued to operate that way he would get a reputation that he was not to be trusted. I further told him that as far as I was concerned he sold his reputation cheap.

I AM NOT GOING TO POST HIS NAME BECAUSE HE IS NEW TO THE CLUB AND BEING SOMEWHAT YOUNG MAYBE HIS PARENTS DIDN'T TEACH HIM ANY BETTER.

I had offered him the amount that he had asked then he changed his mind. That didn't bother me too much as he suggested something else that I could trade for the engine.

I think that it is unfortunate that someone in this great and friendly hobby would sell his honor so easily.

I further think that if the one who bought the engine knew that it had been traded and then rationalized that they would buy it anyway they are just as dishonorable as was this man who made a deal then went back on it.

At one time I did small non-licensed contracting. During this time I sometimes bid jobs that turned out to be a pain in the rear end and I was lucky if I didn't loose money.

I once bid a job and left out 50 feet of concrete block wall. I caught my mistake before the job was started and mentioned it to the lady that I had given the price to. She didn't volunteer to make an adjustment to the price but I had told her that I would be finished in 2 weeks and had given her a price so I started the job.

That weekend at a family picnic I jammed my ankle into second base and ended up with a cast on my ankle. This lady wasn't impressed by the cast either and insisted that I finish the work on time. I taped a plastic bag over the cast and went to work finishing on the 4th of July in 109 degree heat and just making my deadline.

About ten years later I decided to go by the her house and admire my work.
Even though her house was just down the block from the building department because I wasn't licensed I did not get a building permit for her wall.

I built it to code and always did extra good work so I was suprised that the entire wall was gone that I had built and another wall had been built in it's place.

I also noticed that new people lived in the house so I figured that the building department made her get permits and pay for a new wall so that she could sell the house.

Since she had not been very nice and considerate to me regarding the underbid, the injury and the deadline, I thought that it might have been some just retrebution.

Have any of you had similar experiences or am I just expecting too much for the time in which we live.

Dick

Last edited by Dick Welty; 06-19-2005 at 01:54:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 06-19-2005, 02:37:03 AM
Mike McKinney Mike McKinney is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Cambria, CA
Posts: 34
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

Dick, your kidding right. When you use the terms "bid a job", "didn't get a permit", and "unlicensed contractor" in the state of CA you are breaking the law.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-19-2005, 03:07:20 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rockaway, New Jersey USA
Posts: 10,813
Thanks: 1,373
Thanked 4,664 Times in 3,021 Posts
Thumbs down Re: My Word is My Bond.

A number of years ago, I built a water cooled maytag twin, with dual flywheels, and battery ignition. A gentleman who I had known from the Jacktown club, had admired the engine. He had a small steam engine I was interested in , so we shook hands on a trade. I would build another twin specifically for him, in trade for the steam engine. In the mean-time, a second man had bought the first conversion engine at a price I could not refuse! When it came time for me to deliver the completed engine at the fall 1996 show, I asked the gentleman ( if you can call him that) where the steam engine was, he told me" I traded it for the other engine you built. I liked that one better." Now this guy hadn't even seen the new one I had built yet! I told him 'I thought we had a deal, If I had known he had traded the engine off, I wouldn't have built the second one, as I had to put out over $350 in parts alone' All he said was "Tough!", and walked away. Nice guy huh? Several years later, he had a B&S model S for sale, and he wanted a pretty penny for it (about$350 at the time). Another friend Doug, had expressed interest in it, and wanted me to check it out, as it had no spark. I saw a new wire coming out from where the coil should be, and when I heard there was no spark, I was suspicious. When the man saw who my friend was bringing to check the engine out, he told me "Don't touch it". That's all I needed to hear. I told my friend, " You heard the man, don't touch it!". My friend looked sort of puzzled, and the other fellow asked him "You want it or not, I have another guy who will give me more money if you don't take it." Doug looked at the engine, and turned away. He told the guy, "If you have a better offer after we had a deal, I guess you need the money more than I need the engine," and started to walk away with me. The guy says to my friend "That guy telling stories about me?", and Doug says "No, You just told me yourself." and we kept walking. A couple of hours later, this fellow comes up to us and asks if we had seen the guy who sold him the model S Briggs. In fact we had, after he sold it, he hurredly packed up his stuff and had left the grounds of the show. We told the new fellow what we had seen, and all he said was XXX&%#@ D--N. We asked what was the problem, and were told "The SOB sold me a piece of S--T engine! The Ba---rd stole the mag coil and points, and put in a piece of wood painted black in its place, and put a wire into it hooked to the plug. Told me it was a new old stock coil. I paid $400 for it!" I told the newcomer that all I could suggest is that he tell the club directers about this particular member and his mis-dealings, and file a theft by deception charge thru the local gendarmes, to try and get your money back. I later heard that he had pulled some other shady deals, including one to the guy who traded him for steam engine (I told that fine gent I didn't feel sorry for him, seeing how he had sc---ed me over, the first time), and he was personna non gratta at the show.
Andrew
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-19-2005, 08:21:20 AM
Bryan Brooks's Avatar
Bryan Brooks Bryan Brooks is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pilot Point, Texas USA
Posts: 46
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

About a month ago a local ferrier had a Little Giant Trip Hammer that he said he wanted to sell. I asked how much he wanted and I said that sounded fair and that I would call him later. Several days later I saw him in town, asked him if he still had the trip hammer, he said he did, asked if the price was still good, he said had a guy that told him it was worth more, I asked how much more, he told me, I said that was fine, we shook hands then I drove to his house and gave his wife cash as he asked. His wife said she was very happy. I told her I would pick it up as soon as I could and she said not to worry about how long it took. FIVE! days later I went to get it and it was gone. I was told that another person paid the SAME as I did and he let him haul it off. He siad that since I didn't come and get it he thought I didn't want it. He gave me my money back. A deal used to end with a hand shake, now it ends, if your selling, when the check clears the bank, or if your buying, when you have it locked in your shop.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-19-2005, 10:20:24 AM
Tanner Remillard's Avatar
Tanner Remillard Tanner Remillard is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pendleton, Oregon
Posts: 2,847
Thanks: 2,347
Thanked 4,116 Times in 1,011 Posts
Images: 10
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

I had a recent experience along this line. A few months ago I had heard that a guy near me had a engine for sale that I had been trying to get for A LONG time. I called him up, talked for a while, asked what he wanted for it, and I agreed and told him.."I WILL BUY IT AND I WILL BE OUT IN THE MORNING TO PICK IT UP, SO HOLD IT FOR ME" he said ok, good. Needless to say I was really excited, got my money out of the bank and went out to his place to get it. When I got there, he said, "Well, a guy called me last night and said he would offer me more" Well the OTHER guy offered more than I wanted to pay, so in the end, THE OTHER GUY GOT IT. I told him, "I thought we made a deal that I was going to buy it," he said, "well he get's it unless you match the price." What kind of deal is that??? I have had situations before where I have sold and engine to a guy and before he gave me the money and got it, someone else offered more. Of course I wanted the other guy's offer, but I already told the first guy It was his, more or less money. In my book, it's first come first serve, no matter what the price. BUT in the end, what really ticked me off is that I had told the guy that had the engine I wanted several times that if he wanted to ever sell it, DONT PUT AN ADD FOR IT, CALL ME FIRST. He never did call me about it to say that it was for sale, and he KNEW that I REALLY wanted it.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-19-2005, 10:39:52 AM
jdjjdd jdjjdd is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sheridan, Illinois
Posts: 10
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

Well I had an problem with an ebayer just this last week. This guy had a old windmill catalog that he just listed and I spotted it. I put an opening bid in on it at $175 and then I proceeded to get the sellers contact information threw ebay. I then contacted him by email and by phone and I basically asked him what kind of price he would be happy with to end the auction early. In the mean time there were two other bids on the item but I was still the high bid with mine.Finaly he told me he would be happy with $350, so I told him I would take it. Well he ended the auction early and I sent a postal money order to him the next morning and about 5 days later I received my package in the mail. When I opened the package I was shocked! He sent my postal money order back with a little note saying he had to much flax for ending the auction but thanks for the offer. He would relist it and pay for my shipping if I win. I was very upset because he was the one that told me what he wanted for it and I didn't nassle a bit over it. I know the guy that complained over it is a gas engine guy to so maybe this will come back to bite him sometime on another deal. It ended up he relisted it and it ended up that the guy that complained, I think, won it but I guarantee you he will never ever be able to justify what I ran him up to. Over $900 for a 48 page windmill and pump catalog but I'm sure I made the seller happy even though his word doesn't mean sh-t and he has over 3600 ++ feedback
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-19-2005, 10:54:30 AM
Bryan Brooks's Avatar
Bryan Brooks Bryan Brooks is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pilot Point, Texas USA
Posts: 46
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

I feel bad that I thought of the story that went wrong as I posted earlier instead of this story that turned out better than right. The last week in May Paul Maples from Arkansas listed a engine on enginads that I responded to. I called him, made the deal and asked if I needed to do anything to insure that I would be the buyer. He said no, that his word would be as good as he felt mine is. I went to pick it up on Sunday of Memorial Day weekend. Paid him cash in an envelope, asked him to count it, he said he trusted me, we loaded the engine and headed back home. About two hours into our trip home he called my cell phone to let me know that he counted the money and that I overpayed by $50.00. On Tuesday he sent me a $50.00 money order. Now thats the kind of man whose word goes beyond a handshake.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-19-2005, 11:47:38 AM
Rick Strobel's Avatar
Rick Strobel Rick Strobel is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: East Helena, Montana
Posts: 1,120
Thanks: 2,352
Thanked 213 Times in 108 Posts
Images: 20
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

Doesn't get any better than Paul Maples!!

RickinMt.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-19-2005, 12:51:53 PM
WWHoitt WWHoitt is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Montpelier, Virginia
Posts: 40
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

A few months ago I listed a engine for sale and received a reply from another collector, I described the engine as a good looking, restorable engine that I could see, answering any questions asked of me as I thought the engine was a excellent one to restore, I told the individual that if he was not satisfied with the engine that he could return it, the engine was delivered and a little later I received a very scathing letter as to how I decived the buyer and accused me of taking two engines and made one and selling him a piece of junk, I asked what he was dissatified with and was told that the cylinder of the engine was badley pitted, I explained that I had never had the head off of the engine and explained that my comments were based on the exterior of the engine. I also told the buyer that I had told him that for any reason the was dissatified with the engine that his money would be returned, I asked where to send the check and it was sent immediately. I guess that there are several lessons to be learned from this transactions, explain clearley what you comments are based on, do not jump to conclusions and make comments that you will regret later, follow up on your guarantee. With all of the above said the end came out O.K. I learned what this person expected as a engine as he takes pride in restorations and since that time I have had contact with him at shows and I consider that we are friends.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-20-2005, 01:49:12 AM
Dick Welty Dick Welty is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Temecula, California USA
Posts: 267
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Images: 4
Smile Re: My Word is My Bond.

No Mike I was't kidding.

This was back in 1980 and times were tight.

I had quit the Long Beach police department to become a construction manager for a company In Eastern Ky.. The economy went south in new housing and I could have but didn't want to go back into law enforcement so I tried to get a contractors license.

The California Contractors Board put me thru the hoop and even though I had been a Brcklayer by trade and had worked in building trades on side jobs for many years while on the department I would not qualify with the board.

Now in California there are many Licensed Contractors that are good but unfortunatly there are many that are not.

If I had been willing to lie on the application I could have recieved a license very easily but I would not lie.

I had a family of 6 to feed and a house to pay for so I started working on a hand shake.

I started working for friends then word spread that I did better work than others, Always built to code or better, that I was reasonable in price and that I finished my work on time.

At the same time I started a Landscape Gardening Business that was also a sucess. I worked it on the weekends to supliment my income from the masonary work that I was doing.

I often had my customers get the necessary permits as owner builder and either did the work on a price or at cost plus. In the case above she didn't want to pay the permit fee.

The woman that I was writting about above was a Bit_h. She treated her disabeled husband like a dog and had I known all of this before I bid the job I never would have.

A handshake worked well for my customers and almost always for me and my family.

All of the time here in California people are screwed by unscrupulious State Licensed Contractors and they seldom get any satisfaction.

It still boils down to having character and being a real man of your word.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-20-2005, 11:11:12 AM
Dusty's Avatar
Dusty Dusty is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 383
Thanks: 397
Thanked 795 Times in 123 Posts
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

You guys are right about Paul Maples in Arkansas. FIRST CLASS individual ! A neighbor bought an engine from him and he held the engine for two weeks with no payments. We arrived after an 18 hour drive and he helped load it in the truck at 4 a.m. Handed him the cash, and his comment was something like " You guys didnt drive 18 hours to screw somebody". I think I can trust you. Away we went with a nice engine, a fair purchase, and thoughts of a real honest man still left in this world.

Bottom line is...it is all about how you were raised. Good parenting, good teachers, good neighbors.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-20-2005, 11:39:14 AM
Casemaker Casemaker is online now
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: southern Illinois
Posts: 2,411
Thanks: 910
Thanked 2,234 Times in 706 Posts
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

yep....I have heard it said that after you are dead and gone...all that you have left is your reputation.....
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-20-2005, 08:18:12 PM
Jennifer Jennifer is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fargo, N. Dakota USA
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

I feel that I have to respond to JDJJDD. You asked a guy to end an ebay auction early? Is that fair to all the other bidders? If you want something on ebay, bid on it. Are you too good to bid like everyone else? My husband has had creeps end auctions early on ebay and I know it really makes him hard to live with for a while. If the person that sold it has 3900 positive feedbacks he cant be all wrong. And if the guy that bought it is an engine guy, so what. If it's up for auction - anybody can buy it, they dont need to be pre-approved by you. Your letter sounds like sour grapes to me. You are down an the seller, down on the buyer, blah, blah, blah! Next time there is something you want on ebay - stand up and bid with the rest of the men and quit trying to weasel stuff away before the auction is over!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-20-2005, 08:29:41 PM
Craig A's Avatar
Craig A Craig A is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 14,305
Thanks: 13,781
Thanked 17,702 Times in 5,299 Posts
Images: 18
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

HOW MANY TIMES has ANY of us known someone with something we'd REALLY like to have and you ask "whenever you're ready to sell PLEASE give me first chance?" and they say "SURE". And the next thing you know they SOLD it to someone ELSE?
Doesn't THAT frost you? And it happens ALL THE TIME! +_)(*&^%^)(*&^%
Craig
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-20-2005, 09:50:28 PM
Junkologist's Avatar
Junkologist Junkologist is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Avon, Ohio, USA
Posts: 3,859
Thanks: 2,737
Thanked 3,287 Times in 1,434 Posts
Images: 129
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Anderson
HOW MANY TIMES has ANY of us known someone with something we'd REALLY like to have and you ask "whenever you're ready to sell PLEASE give me first chance?" and they say "SURE". And the next thing you know they SOLD it to someone ELSE?
Doesn't THAT frost you? And it happens ALL THE TIME! +_)(*&^%^)(*&^%
Craig

This happened to me and I worked about as hard as he did on the tractor plus I donated parts to the cause!

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-20-2005, 11:00:45 PM
BobRR BobRR is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan, USA
Posts: 3,078
Thanks: 8,164
Thanked 1,305 Times in 875 Posts
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

Jdjjdd!I have to agree 100% with Jen. You are u asked a guy to end the auction early then bid it up so it cost a collector more then should have paid, then made a ton of money for some one you think is a jerk. BobRR
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-21-2005, 12:34:35 AM
Dewey Dewey is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Circleville, Ohio USA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

I saw a generator go up for auction with a reserve on ebay, the auction went to $852, (this was the 2nd time he put it up there). When the auction was over, I offered him $1000 for the generator and he told me someone else had offered him the same and he was thinking of putting it nack on ebay som we could have a "1-day bid war". I didn't particularly care for the demeaning attitude and didn't respond. A month later, he started another auction with the same generator, no reserve, and started at 499, the auction was half way over (10 day) when he decided to removed the reserve price. I offered him $800 for it as he had one bid. He declined but stated if it didn't sell he would give it to me for $800. End of the auction came and I got it for $655. Moral - sometime it's cheaper, much cheaper to let the bidding go through. I have only asked someone if they wanted to end an auction early one time - this one. I'm really glad he declined
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-21-2005, 01:01:52 AM
Kevin O. Pulver Kevin O. Pulver is offline
Email NOT Working
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenesaw, Nebraska USA
Posts: 3,796
Thanks: 1,110
Thanked 1,705 Times in 1,016 Posts
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

I recently contacted a guy who was selling a governor pulley. It didn't meet reserve if I remember correctly. At any rate, it didn't sell, so I asked him what he would take for it. He named his price and I accepted, then he told me someone else offered more but he would let me have it if I split the difference with him. I thought that was a bit unethical but I bought it and he did deliver it one of his trips. He was a nice fella, and I appreciated the delivery, but I was taught also that once you made a deal you don't go back on it. The Bible says that, "Blessed is he that sweareth to his own hurt and changeth it not." In other words, if you make a bad deal, you don't change it. Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-21-2005, 01:15:06 AM
Dan Baalman Dan Baalman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colby, Kansas, USA
Posts: 1,231
Thanks: 147
Thanked 655 Times in 359 Posts
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

Recently on engine ads a guy had an Ottawa ignitor for sale. I emailed him telling him I would like to have it at his price. He wrote back and said I was the first to respond, and to send my address so he could figure the freight. I sent my address and he responded that it had been sold. Funny the night before I was the first responder. I'm sure he got a better offer, I didn't really need it as I have a dozen or so extras but you can never have too many. Just the idea that his word wasn't worth much.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-21-2005, 07:51:57 AM
Neale Behm Neale Behm is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kentucky USA
Posts: 541
Thanks: 57
Thanked 56 Times in 27 Posts
Images: 2
Default Re: My Word is My Bond.

It seems that greed has taken a back seat to integrity in our society. One doesn't have to read too many articles in the paper to see that many businesses feel no loyalty to employees (or stockholders) anymore. The folks at the top are only concerned with 3 things...ME, ME, ME.

Sadly, this attitude has also taken a solid root in society in general. It can change but until then we're stuck protecting ourselves as best we can.

Thanks for allowing me this time on the soapbox!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
A Word of thanks to Harry and everyone Sky Antique Gas Engine Discussion 3 05-25-2005 08:21:29 PM
cross word help Andrew Albrecht Antique Engine Archives 2 09-04-2004 10:18:19 AM
just a word of thanks gearald fielder Antique Engine Archives 0 06-18-2001 10:59:37 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:53:51 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277