Lister Generater

[Andrew Mackey]

The North Jersey Antique Engine and Machine Club (NJAEMC), of which I am V.P., just obtained a Lister Gen Set with a Type 8-1, 8 HP Lister Deisel engine. It is an original Lister, not an Indian knock off. The Unit has an R.A. Lister type CTR 110 AC generater. We have several owners manuals for the engine and generater, but they are not clear on how to wire the assembly. The engine itself has a selenoid attached that appears to control the engine operation, as it looks like it has the ability to engage the engine decompression linkage, when energized There are 2 wires attached to this selenoid, that are long enough to reach inside the circut box mounted on the generater itself. Inside this box, there are 2 rows of terminals. I need a diagram of how to attach the wiring inside the box, as there are no indications of what goes where in the paperwork we have. The Spec Plate reads - Plant # 37065/1 - 79374NA , 110 KVA, 4.5 KV, 1 Phase, Year - 1966, 60 Cycle @ 1800 RPM. There are what appear to be 8 connections, in 2 rows of 4. looking at the generater, with the drive pulleys to the left side, the 2 nearer poles to the left read 110V. 2 to the near right -about 50 VAC each across. top right row end 2 poles, low voltage - around 10-12. There appear to be 6 wires from the generater. The unit also came with a Lister control panel, that has a volt meter, an amp meter, and what appears to be a momentary switch, and 2 fuse holders. The paperwork indicates that this was supplied with the unit. It has 2 RF 602 fuse holders. Can the fuse mount, the part that holds the fuse itself, be replaced? One of the originals is missing. Also, can the Lister panel guages be disassembled in the field? The volt meter guage glass is missing, and we need a replacement. For the Lister Diesel, can SAE 10-30 oil be used, or should I stay with straight SAE 30 weight oil? Ambient temps will reach 80 to 90 degrees F. Thanks Harry, and to all who can help!
Andrew

[Gunny]

Andrew:
How about some pictures. The military used a lot of those in the late 60's and early 70's and I do have some experience with them. That solenoid might be the actuator for an electronic governor.

[Jim McIntyre]

Originally Posted by Gunny

The military used a lot of those in the late 60's and early 70's ....

Really? I NEVER would have guessed that. I have an Indian knock-off, and they're great engines, but at about 800 pounds for the engine alone, I'm surprised that these had any tactical use. (are you sure you meant this engine - the Lister Cold Start? It's got 24 inch flywheels and is rated around 8HP...)

BTW Andrew, great find! Where did it come from? Know any of its history?

Jim

[Andrew Mackey]

A retired gentleman came to our show 3 years ago, wanted unit to go to good home. Unit was used on farm for stand-by power in upstate NY, The engine is mechanically governed to 850 RPM. Packing slip with engine states unit made for export. Packing Listing #CS1648/1157 (export, plant#7937NA, packed by H.P.MCord, 18-10-66 EB3-686. The packing list lists RF 402 Fuses. The decompression selenoid does not appear on any parts listing, or in the electrical nor the engine service list that we have. I do not have photos at this time - the engine is now located about 40 miles from my home.
Andrew The engine is not painted in military garb, it is dark green with gold lettering, cast brass ID plates.
Andrew

[twidget]

A couple of pictures or a scan of what schematic you do have would really help. But lacking that just a couple of my thoughts.

The solenoid on the decrompressor is used to shut down the engine.

Is it just to enable a remote shutdown switch, or was it intended to work with a failsafe shutdown system? Failsafe might have overspeed switch, overtemp switch, possibly low oil level switch.

I would look for these other devices.

just my $0.02

Twidget

[Alan Crate]

I have dealers instruction book for Lister 8/1 diesel generating plant 4.5kW with Start-o-Matic electric control.

book contains all circuit diagrams, spares list etc. could this be of any use in solving your problem.

[Alan Crate]

I have original Instruction book and parts list for R. A. Lister 8/1 engined, 4.5kW diesel generator with Start-O-Matic controls. It contains all circuit diagrams and wiring instructions, spares etc. Could this be what you are looking for.

Pages could be scanned and sent to you if it is of any use.

[ListerDiesel]

The 'NA' in the generator part number indicates that it is "Non Automatic", and automatic set would have 'LB' instead of the 'NA'.

There are various solenoids around these sets, one for fuel rack on the injection pump, one for the valve lifter and one for the compression change-over valve. Not all may be in use or fitted, it just depends on what equipment you have. The momentary contact switch is probably the start button as this is not an auto-start machine. The engine is shut down by either pulling the fuel pump rack back to off position, or holding the exhaust valve open by pulling the stop lever underneath the cam follower, this can be manually done of may have a solenoid.

I'd stay with a good quality straight 30 oil, but make sure it is a detergent not auto oil. If you must use a multi-grade oil, get the thickest starting viscosity you can, ie: 20W50 not 5W-40, again, make sure it is detergent oil.

Because so many different sets were assembled by Lister and the companies in the Hawker Siddeley group later on, it is difficult to know exactly which version of electrickery you have there. I'll have a trol;l through my manuals tonight and see if anything comes up that looks close.

A couple of guys have already offered manual scans/copies, so you may well be OK there.

Earlier machines like the 110V DC sets used the 110V battery to motor the engine for starting, so no separate windings were needed on the generator, just a reversal of field or brush connectors to make the dynamo run as a motor. On AC sets there is a separate DC starter winding etc., which does complicate things a little.

If the fuseholders are the 'Slydlock' type, I have some new holders here, just need to have the size confirmed. GEC and Brush fuseholders were also used.

Hope this is of some use.

Peter

[ListerDiesel]

Books that I have are:

Book 585/267AC Automatic Remote Control Generating Sets 3kW - 8kW

Book 584/260 Diesel Generating Plant Push Buitton Remote Controlled, Self regulating Alternators with Starting Windings.

One of these is going to be your machine I feel.

The one that meets your control box description has two meters, (AC Volts and AC Amps) and a 'Push To Read' switch for the voltmeter, the AC ammeter is for the load, and two fuses. If this looks OK then I can go a bit further with sorting out which circuit diagram to look at. There are many different arrangements in the one book.

Peter

[Andrew Mackey]

To Peter and others who have replied , I , and the NJAE&MC thank you!!!
To Peter, your description of the power panel is exact! There appear to be 2 fuses in bakelite housings, one of which is missing the fuse itself, and I do not know if the other is blown. Would it hurt to wire the guages to operate full time? If need be, I can replace the fuse holders with conventional U.S. made units, but I would like to keep the originals if possible. Would you know if the meter glass for the guages are available from lister? The Volt meter glass is missing, and if it is not replaceable, I will have to replace the meter itself. The unit is run approximately 10 hours a day, for 10 days during the Sussex County Farm and Horse Show, and State Fair, as well as on occasions when we open the NJAE&MC museum to the public. Right now we use it to power some spot lights on special out door exhibits (like the American Flag, our Aeromoter Wiindmill, and the 6 HP F-M engine we power a lineshaft with, as well as the generater set itself. I have wired the selenoid I had mentioned to an emergency engine kill switch, as well.
Andrew

[jdunmyer]

It's possible to make your own glass, if you can find some that's thin enough. A plain circle is especially easy, just fab up a "core drill" using a piece of brass tubing with a few slits in the end. Use a drill press with moderate pressure and valve grinding compound to cut it out. A "dam" of putty around it to hold a bit of water would help.

If it's not plain round, I'd try using a glass cutter. Make the starting piece as little oversized as possible, with maybe 1/4" or so around the finished size.