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Generators & Motors General Discussion Antique Generators, Light Plants and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Motors General Discussion

running exhaust pipe through walls


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  #1  
Old 12-11-2005, 08:09 PM
Tim0477 Tim0477 is offline
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Default running exhaust pipe through walls

Who makes fittings designed to run a exhaust pipe through a wall? What are these actually called? Have been toying around with the idea of semi-permanently mounting my portable backup generator in the garage and piping the exhaust outside. Would have to go through the drywall and insulation and then exit through the brick exterior. We mainly lose power durring rainstorms, and I don't have anyplace outdoors sheltered enough from the weather to keep the unit.

Thanks,
Tim
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2005, 08:19 PM
Doogdoog Doogdoog is offline
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Lightbulb Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

Aloha,
For a start, you could check what they have at a marine supply. They run the exhaust to the outside of the boat so they must have some special fittings. Are you going to run the gen with the doors closed? If you are, you will need some type of ventilation or it will become extremely hot in there and also beware of the carbon monoxide even if the exhaust is routed outside.

Mahalo,
doogdoog
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  #3  
Old 12-11-2005, 09:01 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

Marine exhaust is usually water cooled before being put thru the hull. You need a double wall piping set up. basicly, it is a pipe within a pipe, that isolates the heat between inner and outer walls of the piping. A good generater supply should be able to supply you with the flex piping and the double wall fittings nescessary. You will need fresh air intake for the generater.
Andrew
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:06 PM
Doogdoog Doogdoog is offline
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Thumbs up Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

Aloha Andrew,
Yes, you are right on the exhaust, and while I was online checking the various marine supply stores, I came up across some very interesting silencers for the exhaust system. The only problem, is the size and cost!

Mahalo,
doogdoog
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  #5  
Old 12-11-2005, 09:31 PM
Brad Williams Brad Williams is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

Dear Tim,

You might want to check with your local building codes. If not city than perhaps state codes. I live in an urban area where the code was pretty well spelled-out. The city building inspector sent me the code for a generator installation. ( probably seven pages worth) Please be aware it does get expensive even if you do a lot of it yourself. Most likely, you will need to insulate the exhaust pipe. and you will want to keep a fire extinguisher nearby. I'm assuming you are setting up your generator in an attached garage where you can keep the door open for cooling and combustion air. There are a number of steps you really want to follow carefully if want to rest easy with the generator chugging away unattended. You can get information from most of the diesel engine/ generator people. The specific piece you were asking about is a double wall thimble. The distance between the inner and outer walls depends on what type of wall you are going through.
Good luck with your installation. Brad
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Old 12-12-2005, 06:13 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

Another thing to think of, is what do you do with it, once you get outside! You cannot just stick it thru the wall, and leave it That is a sure war to invite CO poisoning The exhaust should be run at least 2 feet past the roof line, and not within 10' of any fresh air intake (including ridge roof venting), window, or skylite! All in All, it might be cheaper to erect a commercial shed to house the engine!
Andrew
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:22 PM
Pentode Pentode is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

The device you're looking for is called a "wall thimble" or "exhaust thimble" and as mentioned insulates the hot exhaust pipe from combustibles yet provides a weather seal against the elements.

You would be very wise to route the exhaust up and away from any openings of the dwelling and also provide powered ventillation for the area where you plan to run the generator. It would be easier to erect one of those "garden sheds" and put the generator inside this building, at least it won't share the air in the house. If yours is a detached garage run the exhaust out the side farthest from the house or neighbors house that way you keep the peace and won't fill the places with carbon monoxide.

You might want to consider using 2 or 3 mufflers to cut down the noise, I used round truck mufflers one at the generator itself then a resonator from a V8 oldsmobile and another muffler on the end. Fully loaded the exhaust noise level was 64db A weighed and that transilates to very quiet.

How big of a generator are we talking here?

Pentode
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:20 PM
Tim0477 Tim0477 is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

Thanks for the information. To answer a few questions: Yes this is a attached two car garage. The generator is a 5000W air cooled unit. I was planning on running the exhaust throught the wall on the far end of the garage away from the rest of the house. Won't actually get to doing any of this until the spring or summer, but I think I now have a idea of what would be required to do this job correctly.

Thanks,
Tim
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:33 PM
sparkplug54 sparkplug54 is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

Keep in mind that the more pipe you use the more HP will be lost. For every 10ft of pipe you should increase the pipe size. for example if exhaust is 1 1/4" after 10ft increase to 1 1/2". And also the end of pipe should slope down so that moisture will run out. Pipe unions (if used) should be close to the engine. Dan S.
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  #10  
Old 12-13-2005, 12:24 AM
Simple_serf Simple_serf is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

We had a "thimble" (round sheetmetal with a hole in it) made by a local hvac company. cut a hole in the wall, ran the pipe through that, put a slightly larger pipe over the part that went though the wall, and put some asbestos between the two. the outer pipe just gets warm to the touch. we made sure to add insulation and keep everythign away from the wooden wall. after the pipe was outside, we extended it over the roof line and put a flap on it to keep out the rain.

The Simple serf
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  #11  
Old 12-13-2005, 01:07 AM
Steve Dawkins Steve Dawkins is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim0477
Yes this is a attached two car garage. The generator is a 5000W air cooled unit. Tim

Tim,

It's difficult to install an air cooled generator set in an enclosed space such as a garage. Unless you have the garage doors open while the generator's running and provide some ventilation such as an exhaust fan, the genset might be subject to overheating. A considerable amount of heat is rejected from the engine and the generator end when the genset is operating. If this heat is not removed, it heats the ambient air around the genset. This heated air keeps recirculating through the genset, raising the temperature of the equipment to damaging levels.

Here's another thing to consider. Do you have any gas or oil fired appliances such as a furnace, boiler or water heater in the garage where you plan to locate the generator? These appliances rely on heat convection to move exhaust gases through the appliance and up the chimney. If you install an exhaust fan to remove heat from the generator, the fan can create a negative air pressure in the garage under the right circumstances. If the garage doors aren't opened sufficiently to provide enough "supply air", the exhaust fan can pull air back down the chimney or flue pipe. If the heating appliance is operating, the flames can actually get sucked out of it, into the garage. Obviously, this would present a very dangerous condition.

Even if you install the genset in its own enclosure, there will be special ventilation requirements with an air cooled engine.

Steve
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  #12  
Old 12-13-2005, 03:13 PM
IanR IanR is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

This site is very helpful for planning an installation, section 7 covers exhaust routing
http://home.att.net/~dexter.a.hansen/genset/insttoc.htm
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Old 09-17-2011, 09:13 AM
jviss jviss is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

I realize this is an old, old thread, but I found it searching for information on installing a generator in a basement or garage. In my case I'm interested in an installation of a stationary diesel generator.

It's scary to imagine what some well meaning, innocent, but uninformed people might do. I strongly recommend that anyone who isn't a trained professional seek professional advice on this topic before installing a generator inside.

The risks are life threatening. One could burn down the house, or asphyxiate the occupants.

As a starting point, consult with your local building code authority, i.e., town building inspectors office.

To get an overview of the topic, take a look at the National Fire Protection Association standards, which are viewable online for free; in particular, NFA 37, "Standard for the Installation and Use of Stationary Combustion Engines and Gas Turbines."

http://www.nfpa.org/onlinepreview/on...t.asp?id=3710#

Cheers,

jv
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Old 09-17-2011, 07:11 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

If it's portable, just invest in a stout chain and padlock, and an assortment of extension cords, and put the thing outside, AWAY from the house. If it's not portable, consider putting it on wheels and doing the same thing. If it's too heavy to roll, buy a small garden shed and put it in there. I think putting any generator in ANY occupied building, is just a bad plan. Fires, fumes, noise, fuel leaks, coolant leaks....all can be bad.

Robert
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Old 09-19-2011, 09:42 AM
Steve Jags Steve Jags is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

I underestimated the amount of heat my 15kw air cooled gen would generate when I designed its shed. Best thing to do is duct outside air directly to the flywheel opening and duct the return air back outside. If you simply install a fresh air intake near the unit your garage will be freezing. Al I had to do was build a return duct through the wall and install a large vent in front of the motor. No need to duct the intake since this is only a shed. Even with a separate exhaust fan running (with its own intake vent and a large ridge vent the unit still kicks off alot heat.

You must be really careful about CO. Multiple CO and heat/smoke alarms would be very wise, and if possible rigged to shut off the unit if an alarm is triggered. Running the unit in a garage attached to the house could be very loud.
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Old 09-19-2011, 10:37 AM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

If it wasn't so dangerous, could put in basement and heat house.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:24 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

just blow the warm air through a heat pump evaporator
oh wait a minute, is it big enough to run the heat pump?
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:50 AM
Tim0477 Tim0477 is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

Hello,

As the guy that started this thread in 2005 I will respond. At the time I installed a exhaust port in the garage door. In good weather the plan was to place the generator outdoors and run the wire through the exhaust port in the door. In poor weather, the plan was to run the generator in the garage and pipe the exhaust through the port in the door. I had 10' of 1.5" iron pipe which gave me about 8' sticking past the door on the outside. It got rid of the exhaust fine, but 3 unexpected problems came about. One was the amount of heat produced. This was a little Onan 5CCK. It made the 2.5 car garage hot even in the winter. Another problem was that the hot air from the engine blows across the gas tank (this is a contractor model CCK) and the gasoline vapors made the garage stink bad. Finally, setting this up in a power failure meant manually lifting the door to get the car out, closing the door and placing the generator, and finally attaching the extension piping for the exhaust. This was a Mickey Mouse approach at best and the power would likely be back on before this was all said and done.
About 2 years later, I came across a natural gas fueled JB at auction and permanently mounted it on a concrete pad outside of the house. This has worked out much better. The best thing about the whole deal is using a fuel supply that never goes stale or plugs up the carb.

Tim
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:57 PM
jwxr7 jwxr7 is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

Tim, could you post some pics of the JB as it sits outside? Did you build an enclosure for it? I'm trying to figure out where to put mine and have been going back and forth with in garage or outside in an enclosure.

thanks,
jamie
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:48 PM
dasratsel dasratsel is offline
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Default Re: running exhaust pipe through walls

What about braided flex pipe? How many should be on a 8 foot exhaust system? Where should you install them? I am installing my RD out in a 10 x 12 shed due to noise and smell, and I will have room to work on it. Will have pics soon.
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