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Machine Shop and Tool Talk

Air compressor and PVC pipe


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  #21  
Old 03-25-2007, 07:33 PM
candersen candersen is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

if you use pvc in a comercial type of setting watch out for OSHA. I personally would not use it. OSHA wouldnt red tag it if it was safe.
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  #22  
Old 04-12-2007, 08:00 AM
Sdilmore Sdilmore is offline
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Exclamation Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

PVC Does not have good Burst strength as the others have said. But Another major problem with it is. That when your compressor pumps the air it becomes very warm which creates heat and moisture. The PVC holds this in which then causes Moisture in your air lines. The copper will let the heat dissipate causing less problems with the moisture. Also if you use your compressor a lot be sure to drain the tank often. If you put water traps into to the lines to catch moisture.
Be sure to put the first one 25ft from your compressor as it takes air 25 ft to cool when it comes out of your compressor. You can achieve this easily with copper by making a 25ft copper loop right of the compressor then into the trap.
Copper is the best way to go. Be sure to slope your lines away from the tank. With drops to the separators.
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  #23  
Old 04-12-2007, 02:23 PM
Franz Franz is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

Actually, copper is a terrible metal for cooling any substance it's carrying unless the copper line is submerged in a cooling liquid.
Copper lines do not give off heat by radiation.
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  #24  
Old 04-14-2007, 12:02 AM
Bill O Bill O is online now
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

Sorry, I agree that smooth bare copper is not the best radiator; but, it is far, far better than PVC and other plastics. Just look in the kitchen and all the pots and pans with plastic handles. The real issue is how much the safe handling pressure drops with both age, temperature and conditions. I have seen, as a chemist, how PVC and other plastics will pick up solvent and other vapors from the air. Depending on the type of work area fumes a pipe can go "soft" or loose a good part of its strength in less than a year. All this can happen while the workers think they are breathing clean air and don't notice the junk in the air.
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  #25  
Old 04-14-2007, 01:55 AM
Franz Franz is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

Ahh Bill, the comment addressed merely the heat discipating property of copper lines.

You're also absolutely right that PVC as well as most plastics are insulators rather than conductors of heat.

As to the subject of plastics softening from exposure to solvents, again, you're right, but I don't recall anything in this post suggesting the airstream being carried is one of contaminated air. Hopefully, as a chemist, you'll agree in many cases plastics are superior ducting for many contaminated air streams than metal, with the exceptions of specific stainless alloys.

The bottom line in all these discussions of compressed air lines is that the original question rarely contanis sufficient specifics to begin judging what will be the best material for the line. My biggest objection to PVC being used for compressed air is that PVC is damn near impossible to see on Xray, so it's going to be hunt & dig for the sawbones at the Emergency Room trying to dig the shards out of whoever got hit.

Compressed gas, be it air or any other gas, is always a dangerous proposition, and shouldn't be piped by people who don't understand it.
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  #26  
Old 04-14-2007, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

I have a short run in the shop and it's all black pipe (safety first) with drains at the low points and outlet, with a ball valve at the compressor.
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  #27  
Old 04-28-2007, 08:16 PM
Sdilmore Sdilmore is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

If you check with folks who sell and install Air compressors. Copper is excellent for running airlines it will not hold the heat as will plastic and is recommended. As for black iron it is also a good choice. Plastic never!
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  #28  
Old 04-28-2007, 08:19 PM
Sdilmore Sdilmore is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

If you check with folks who sell and install Air compressors. Copper is excellent for running airlines it will not hold the heat as will plastic and is recommended. As for black iron it is also a good choice. Plastic never! copper will not hold the heat in it will let the heat escape.
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  #29  
Old 08-31-2007, 12:02 AM
John A John A is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

Standard white PVC pipe is not UV protected. Best used indoors.
A buddy of mine did his shop with it about 5 years ago.
He used sch 40 pipe, cleaned, primed then glued all joints with wet/dry PVC cement (the blue stuff).
Running approx. 80 psi, so far no failures.
I also designed and installed condinsate traps for sand blasting.
Not one drop of condinsate so far at the nozzle.
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  #30  
Old 08-31-2007, 06:55 AM
Redwing Redwing is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

My old work at all new Saw Mill & mfg right after burnt down in early 1989, I installed some part of PVC air lines up to 6" on ceiling & down to work places or machines and more, after first days run saw mill or weeks later, had exploded a few times was elbow or T whatevers, it was found was poorly chamfer/gluing jobs by some other workers. it must be well cleaned, chamfered & lot glued slowly slide in and soak in, then all was fine. it can holds about 160-170 psi for some years.


one time worst ever I had, when I changing big 12" wide bandsaw while I was standing by 5 feets away from large 6" from main air compessior room, and pile of sawdusts anywhere on floor, pipe was exploded at us, large radius was sawdust blew away. I still never forget this happen.
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  #31  
Old 10-06-2008, 10:56 AM
tcalhoun tcalhoun is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

I have experienced it first hand dont use pvc.
we had a hydraulic and machine shop and used 2" pvc to run the whole length of the shop and had about a 10' hose between the compressor and the pvc to reduce vibration and it worked fine for about 3 months and one day it blew up and sounded like a cannon and threw sharp pvc chunks every where luckily we were at the other end of the shop. we replaced it with black steel pipe and never had any problems locktite has a new pipe sealer that is great it comes in a tube and seals alot better than the pipe dope or thread tapes. I would recomend using threaded black steel and the locktite pipe sealer for a trouble free install and i would put in a couple of drip legs.
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  #32  
Old 11-15-2008, 10:41 AM
11echo 11echo is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

I used sch40 PVC pipe with galv. pipe to plumb in my air system in the shop. I ran the PVC in the rafters and came down with galv. steel pipe to supply points. My thinking at the time was the area where I most likely would "bump" the piping should be steel. That worked fine for about 2 years. Then one day I heard a loud bang in the shop, sure enough the PVC had broke ...right at a fitting. It messed up the insulation in about a 9" radius. Since that time I have changed it out to all galv. steel.
I'm not suggesting not using PVC, its cheap & easy. But in some places it my be illegal if this is a public place. If you NEED a working systems quickly (as I did back then) I’d use PVC again. BUT I'd suggest to use steel if you can and/or with the idea that you'll change out the PVC with steel down the road. My $0.02, Good Luck!
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  #33  
Old 11-15-2008, 01:44 PM
JHFoster JHFoster is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcalhoun View Post
I have experienced it first hand dont use pvc.
we had a hydraulic and machine shop and used 2" pvc to run the whole length of the shop and had about a 10' hose between the compressor and the pvc to reduce vibration and it worked fine for about 3 months and one day it blew up and sounded like a cannon and threw sharp pvc chunks every where luckily we were at the other end of the shop. we replaced it with black steel pipe and never had any problems locktite has a new pipe sealer that is great it comes in a tube and seals alot better than the pipe dope or thread tapes. I would recomend using threaded black steel and the locktite pipe sealer for a trouble free install and i would put in a couple of drip legs.

Maybe that is how your hometown got its name!
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  #34  
Old 11-16-2008, 01:22 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe; bad idea

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/...c.php?p=126306
Not recommended.... why not use copper?
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  #35  
Old 05-02-2010, 10:24 PM
lannyo lannyo is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

do not use pvc pipe. the pipe will come lose at the joints because of the air pressure . use steeel pipe. start with a shut off valve kit then a regulator then install a air filter and lubricatoer if needed. the only thing is i would not waste my money on a lubricator because you can oil your air toools at the snap on spout that the air hose hooks up to. from the air filter you can put a coupler that you hook you air hose to. that is the way i got mine and i dont get any moisture at all in my hose. be sure to drain your tank every time you get ready to paint a car or use a air tool
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  #36  
Old 05-02-2010, 10:30 PM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

1" galvanized pipe. Period. Done. Put water trap drops as often as you can with petcock or ball valve drains and drain every day compressor is on.
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  #37  
Old 05-02-2010, 10:52 PM
BarryMc BarryMc is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

PVC in my shop for over 20 years now, never had a problem. I would recommend using something else besides PVC just because the "professionals" say it isn't safe. JM2C's worth.
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  #38  
Old 05-03-2010, 12:45 AM
Richard W. Richard W. is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

I have been in the room when PVC blew up and it's no fun. Don't use it for air.
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  #39  
Old 05-03-2010, 08:37 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

My cousin had a JD dealershp 40 years ago where PVC was used for the air system. They ran it at 175 PSI. The ONLY problems they had was in the hot humid summers of Southwest Missouri it would blow the fittings from the pipe.

Kent
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  #40  
Old 05-03-2010, 09:50 AM
PTSideshow PTSideshow is offline
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Default Re: Air compressor and PVC pipe

PVC is a resin mixed with "CHALK" as a filler,extender what ever you what to call it.
It can get brittle to conditions in the shop area.

All most all standard PVC water piping isn't UV protected so if the sun shines in and even reflected sunlight is bad for it.

Temperatures and the flex of the pipe due to changes in the temps in the shop will cause hairline fractures, that can have a catastrophic event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K D Redd
My cousin had a JD dealershp 40 years ago where PVC was used for the air system. They ran it at 175 PSI. The ONLY problems they had was in the hot humid summers of Southwest Missouri it would blow the fittings from the pipe.
40 years ago the formula for the pipe was different, more resin less chalk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by US PLASTIC
PVC Pipe
This is schedule 40 and schedule 80 pvc pipe. Schedule 40 is available in gray and white, and is for socket fittings only. It is NSF listed, but can't be threaded. Schedule 80 is available in gray and is for socket or threaded fittings. It can be threaded and is NSF listed. Both have a wide variety of uses in the chemical field and resistance, also in industrial plants, just to name a couple. For UV resistance of PVC pipe and fittings, paint with a white water based latex paint. Under chemical, the service temp is 33-140° F. Pipe is not recommended for use with compressed air or gases. PVC material is Type 1 according to the American Society for Testing Material D-1784. For industrial plants, the PSI is based on water at 73° F. Derate 50% at 110° F and 78% at 140° F. Pipe is round and smooth on the inside and out, resistant to cracking, and made from premium virgin Goodrich gray PVC resin. Is superior to regular commercial grade used for regular plumbing. Round and smooth inside and out. Resistant to cracking. This pipe is manufactured by harvel plastics and is superior in quality to commercial grades of PVC pipe used for regular plumbing. Sch. 40 socket fitting ASTM D-2466; Sch. 80 socket fitting ASTM D-2467; Sch 80 threaded fittings ASTM D-2464. Pipe- ASTM D-1785. PSI is based on water at 73°F. Derate 50% at 110°F and 78% at 140°F. Schedule 40 is for socket fittings only; threading is not a recommended practice. Schedule 80 pipe can be threaded. NSF listed. Schedule 40 white pipe is dual marked as DWV pipe.
US PLASTIC'S web page index PVC

Whether it is schedule 40 or 80(often called double wall) The only PVC that is "Rated" for use with pneumatics is Harvel Clear It is pure resin, and is used in the tube transport systems for banks and other. Along with being FDA approved food safe. The transport (pneumatic systems) are low pressure operated systems.

There are other plastic pipe/tubing systems that are "RATED" for use with air.

With the number of accidents that are documented on the net. Why any one would even think of using it is beyond me.

And finally something else to consider, Hope it doesn't fail while your grandkids are around the shop. When it does it does so with sharp pointed shards.

And after the event, when the insurance and other investigators are there is there are injuries. As soon as the plastic pipe is seen as the source, your claim and anybody else's will be denied.

Then the lawyers and the fun begins.

My suggestion is if you don't want to spend the money on the correct piping. Save up and buy a good quality hose and reel. and use that, less likely to have a catastrophic injury accident.

Quote:
Reported cases of PVC pipe shattering when used with high-pressured gases(air) have increased drastically. The Federal Government has issued safety warnings, which strongly recommend using alternative piping material.
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