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Wirewelding Wondering


Ok, Mr. Day-Late-and-Dollar-Short here; Just purchased my first wirefeed welder. 115V Miller. My...

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  #1  
Old 01-31-2006, 07:10 PM
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Default Wirewelding Wondering

Ok, Mr. Day-Late-and-Dollar-Short here; Just purchased my first wirefeed welder. 115V Miller. My question: What do you guys think is best for general puttering around-type of welding; would it be the fluxcore or the solid core with gas setup. My welder is capable of both. I don't want to spend the extra for the tank, though the gas regulator is with the machine. I'm opting for flux core wire. I don't do precision work, just stickin' stuff together for my own use.
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Old 01-31-2006, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

Dad and I just got the Miller 135. Same as yours. Check the differance in the price of the flux cored wire and the solid. You can buy lots of gas for the extra cost of the flux cored wire. Also, the solid wire and gas makes a much nicer weld. Much cleaner and no flux to clean up. As you might have figured we went with the gas and solid wire.

keithw
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Old 01-31-2006, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

Thanks, Keith! I'll definately consider cookin'.........er..........welding with gas!
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Old 01-31-2006, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

A friend started to use it, and, while he did turn on the bottle he forgot to turn up the regulator. The solid wire welds with no gas are really ugly.

We got the 50 cu ft tank. Normal welding uses 20 cu ft per hour. So thats 2 1/2 hours of actual welding time. Thats a lot of welding.

keithw
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

I would go with the solid wire and gas. I have welded at least a couple thousand hours with this and there is no reason not to use it. Works great
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

Peronally I started with the flux-core wire for the few welding jobs so far. Decided I did not need the extra hassle of bottles, regulators etc. If the pace picks up will switch over to gas but need to learn brazing first.

Neil Peters
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Old 02-01-2006, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

Without any intent to be insulting, I'd strongly suggest you either make the comittment to learn to weld, or put the machine on a shelf and leave it, before you get someone hurt.
Wire welders are called Hot Glue Guns for a reason, and hotgluing or sticking things together isn't welding.
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

OUCH!
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

One of the reasons I went flux core is because I do a good share of my work outside, due to the sometimes crowded conditions in my shop. I just hate the idea of a stray spark getting in somewhere and smouldering until the middle of the night and then...........well, you know.......
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

According to the instructions that came with mine, flux core is reccomended in the wind where the shielding gas gets blown away before it can do it's thing. I'm not sure if Franz has a problem with the wire feed welder or with the operator. Good and bad welds can be made with any type of welder and making good welds does take practice. The wire feed is more convenient but you still need to set up and prepare properly to get a good weld.

keithw
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Old 02-01-2006, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

I gave 'er a whirl, this evening. Tried "gluing" two clean pieces of scrap together and that went very well. Next, for grins and chuckles, took one piece of flatstock that was painted the oxidized red, like on structural steel, and laid a hunk of rusty square tubing on top of it. Never missed a spark, and the penetration was very good. Could see the neat "tracks" my work through the backside of the flatstock. I think it's gonna be ok.
I am a somewhat experienced welder, though the bulk of my work has been with stick welders. This is my first wirefeed.
Anybody wanna buy my Clarkeweld 115V stick burner?
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Old 02-02-2006, 02:54 PM
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Question Re: Wirewelding Wondering

Still got my 220V Craftsman stick welder. Still good for things the 120V wire feed won't handle.

Also, I am in the middle of putting together a big diode bridge so I can do DC welding with the stick welder. Anybody here tried this? Is the stabalizing coil that the motor generator welders need required to get good stability?

keithw
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:42 PM
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Exclamation Re: Wirewelding Wondering

Keith:

I think you may need a reactance coil to smooth out the pulsating DC you get from the bridge. It probably wouldn't hurt to get a HUGE electrolytic capacitor to hook across the output of the reactance, too.

When you design a solid state bridge rectifier in any highly reactive power circuit, remember that high voltage spikes are the order of the day.

The PIV rating of the diodes should be very high (500 Volts+) and, if you can manage to get 'em, you should put high energy varistors across each diode. The rating of the varistors should be about the same or slightly less than the PIV rating of the diodes.

Let us know how this works out. At least let us know where the smoke leaked out.

Take care - Elden
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Old 02-02-2006, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithW
Still got my 220V Craftsman stick welder. Still good for things the 120V wire feed won't handle.

Also, I am in the middle of putting together a big diode bridge so I can do DC welding with the stick welder. Anybody here tried this? Is the stabalizing coil that the motor generator welders need required to get good stability?

keithw
Well, if you really want to take the DIY DC machine conversion, here's a site that will help you. http://forums.diywelder.com/forum/vi...f880cc0679874f + DIY Welder building

Of course, after all that $$$ and work, you still won't have a stable DC arc.

Or, you can go to either Lincoln or Miller's site and pull up schematics of how they build their DC rectifier machines.

The long and short of it, if you want DC, buy a DC machine. The reality is with the availibility of AC rods today, there is very little real need for a DC machine, other than the ability to catch short naps behind the mask.

There is entirely too much Bovine Scatology advertising by welding manufacturers promoting junk.
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

One big thing I prefer about DC over AC is the lack of splatter. Plus, they're some easier to strike an arc too.
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Old 02-03-2006, 12:12 AM
Jonathan Widelo Jonathan Widelo is offline
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

Moro,
I have a Millermatic 35 its 220 and uses the gas. like using the gas it makes for less mess. I am just getting into mig welding. When I first learned how to weld when I was a kid it was arc welding. I Also have a large arc welder a Lincoln SA-200 powered by a Continental F-162 I am currently working on it needs a valve job and a carb rebuild. It hasn't run in 25 years, I was my grandfathers.

~ Jonathan

Oh yeah and to Franz's point, how are you gonna learn if you don't do a little trial and error. It doesn't always mean your gonna get hurt, I taught myself how to do plenty of things just by watching others such as how to run a chain saw and skid steer when I worked on a farm. I just hopped right in a skid steer one day and messed with the controls and never had any problems. I started operating other equipment when I was 12 at a local ski resort. I probably ran more equipment at age 14 then most have in their 20's.

It's just like trying to find a job usually everyone, requires some experience. How is someone fresh out of school going to gain experience without someone taking a chance on them in the first place?
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Old 02-03-2006, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

There ya go, Jonathan.
To clear up a possible misconception: I have done plenty of welding since I first picket up the stinger on my dad's aged Forney. I did take a short welding class in highschool, where I had my first encounter with a Miller. It was a stick welder, AC/DC. That's where I fell in love with DC. I've spent a little time on a wirefeed, but the bulk of my experience is on a stick machine. So, I do know a bit about the fluxcore/gas difference.
It's ok, Franz, some of my welds look ugly even yet!
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Old 02-04-2006, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

Well boys, this just might get me sent to Sensitivity Training Camp, but that won't be a first for me.

We have a few sayings around here about welding; The first being "Just cause you own one don't mean you are one" and the second being "When you're done sawing it, polishing it, and developing it, bring it back and we'll see if it's a weld or not".

Now I only been participating in the craft of welding for a bit over 45 years, and for the younguns, that does Predate the MIG process. I've run stick, SubArc, MIG and Heliarc®, along with O/A, and I've cut with O/A, O/P, O/M, and Plasma starting with machines that ran 3 cylinders of gas rather than air, ArcAir, and Thermal Lance. Over all that time, I've read a couple encyclopedias worth of information on the craft, and invested a couple thousand hours learning things I hadn't known before. The sad reality is after all of that time, I still have a hell of a lot more to learn. One thing I'm just as sure of today as I was 45 years ago, a pile of birdshyt on top of metal ain't a weld!

I'm also pretty damn convinced Machine manufacturers, including Lincoln, Miller, HoFart, Clark, Century, RiLand, and a few others are concerned about one thing and one thing only, NUMBER of machines sold. They have contrived, along with their Madison Ave cohorts, campaigns to peddle their crap machines in box stores and mailorder catalogues, and have done a fair job of convincing people anybody can weld. 40 years ago, Lincoln advertising regularly spoke of the need for skilled weldors to produce quality products, and designing assemblys to minimize welding and the high cost thereof. 10 years ago, Lincoln switched their advertising to promoting their machines as being so sophisticated low wage "welding operators" could use them and produce marketable results.

Now, I could expound on MIG and FluxCore welding here, and how deceptive both processes can be and are, but why should I waste my time on people who acept the low standard of Looks Stuck Together, and have no idea of the difference in arc density between FluxCore and solid wire, and how that effects penetration and strength. There are at least 5 "welding sites" I can think of where discussion of those parameters are routinely flamed down because the little Box Store MIG boys think they're weldors, and 2 of those sites are manufacturer sponsored.

So, I think I'll just depart this discussion, after all, the thinking here is that it's possible to; "Next, for grins and chuckles, took one piece of flatstock that was painted the oxidized red, like on structural steel, and laid a hunk of rusty square tubing on top of it. Never missed a spark, and the penetration was very good.", and call that a weld.

I guess I just wasted all those years learning to do it right.
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Old 02-04-2006, 08:57 AM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

Franz,
Maybe you and I have a communication problem there. I did NOT intend for my sticking rusty stuff together to mean that I impressed myself as a weldor.
It was just a "try it out" session.
I do not mean to imply that just because I own a "Box Store Special" that I'm now to be ranked among the weldors of the grade you talk about. I'm a hobby weldor, pure and simple. I bought my machine for my own purposes. I don't doubt your expertise in this field.
So, on that note, instead of acting like a selfrightous a**, why don't you take the time to help educate us "amatures", rather then excusing yourself from the conversation? Like so many other things, I'd like to learn as much about welding as I can, so I can do a professional-grade job.
Or are you too good for us?
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Old 02-04-2006, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: Wirewelding Wondering

Franz, I apologize for coming off strongly in my last post. I had the feeling that you were looking down your nose at guys with my experience (lack thereof) and equipment. If that's not the case, I'm sorry.
Fellows who have the knowledge that you have can be the greatest teachers of my level.
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