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Onan CCK Control board


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  #21  
Old 02-26-2006, 09:54 AM
Ted_Cool Ted_Cool is online now
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Default Re: CCK Control board

Hi Andrew,

I think that all these gensets need fuses on the DC output. If you look at the CCK control board and related units, the DC generator section or the DC from the rectifier goes out to the control board with no fuse whatsoever. I'm thinking that a 15 amp fuse before G1R1 terminal 2 would provide good protection. I think it couldn't hurt to fuse the field windings too - For this unit, there are two field wire connections, so two 15 amp fuses at the positive brush outputs. This could save the armature winding!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Mackey
The electronic CCK boards were problematic from day one! The circuts are interrelated to one another in such a way that fires were a common result. As you posted, you fixed something on top, and the bottom started to cook!

Had another one go up this weekend!

Neighbors of my grandfathers went to prep their RV to go to Forida. Started the ONAN genny, and while inside the RV, a couple of minutes later, noted a smell of something electrical burning. Hubby opened the generator bay hatch, top of the unit looked like a fireworks display Thankfully he pulled the 12 Volt cable off the battery, and had a dry chem extinguisher near by. There is yellow powder all over, but he saved the RV itself. They got away with some smoke damage, burned insulation, and wiring in the Genny compartment. The CCK 4 is toast - armature, feilds, wiring, all fried.
Andrew
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  #22  
Old 02-26-2006, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: CCK Control board

I forgot, though - the starting current is pretty large. Need to measure that first. Maybe not practical to fuse the filed and armature...
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  #23  
Old 02-26-2006, 01:26 PM
Webber G Webber G is offline
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Default Re: CCK Control board

Hello Folks,
I recently join the group and have been also following the discussion on the CCK control board. I came across a 5.0 CCK 3cr/12017, serial # 11730733. This generator does not have the starter disconnect adapter. If I jumped 12 volts to the starter solenoid, it would turn slowly. The originial control board was rusted and cracked. I read through the groups database and purchase a new control board from Flight Systems. The folks at Flight are very helpful and they have fast service. I installed the new board and had the same problem of the engine would not crank over. In troubleshooting I found that terminal 9 had only .50 volts. I talked to Flight and they thought that maybe the starter solenoid was shorting the circuit. I returned the board for repair and installed a new starter solenoid. When the board returned, the report was that Q2 had failed, something had shorted it. I installed the repaired control board but did not hook up the starter solenoid. I wanted to test the circuit first before connecting it. I read .50 volts at terminal 9 again. I have checked the wiring and everything looks good. I have not figured out what is creating this problem with the CCK control board system. Mr. Shafer had offered the relay conversion drawings and had sent them to me. I thank you again for them. I am starting to gather the parts for the relay system as a back up plan B. Any ideas on this problem with the CCK control board would be greatly apprecited. Thank You, Webber
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  #24  
Old 02-26-2006, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: CCK Control board

Just a quick one here - If you jump 12 volts to the start solenoid, and the motor turns slowly, either the battery is weak, or the DC brushes or commutator is dirty.
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  #25  
Old 02-26-2006, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: CCK Control board

I think the Flight Systems board is bound to be at least a little different, but Q2 on a 300C509 is the start disconnect transistor. It passes the 12 volts from the battery ( F1, terminal 5, F2 if present, switch 2 'start', Q2, terminal 9) to the start solenoid. The only way to cook this would be for a wire connected to terminal 9 to be shorted to ground, I would think. Fuse F1 is supposed to prevent this...

I just use a screwdriver and connect the control terminal to the battery side of the K1 start relay. The genset will just start right up, no switch pressing required!

I would check terminals 8, 7 and 2, and the wires between them and the gen. You should be able to get the gen started with them off - it just won't keep running when you let off the start switch...
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Old 02-26-2006, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: CCK Control board

Quote:
Originally Posted by ted_cool
Just a quick one here - If you jump 12 volts to the start solenoid, and the motor turns slowly, either the battery is weak, or the DC brushes or commutator is dirty.
Ted:

One time during a power failure (when else) after starting fine for a couple of days, my friend's 5.0 CCK cranked very slowly, wouldn't start and heated up the battery cables. To make a long story short, I found out that if there's a load on the generator when you try to start it, it adds to the starting current.

What happened is, during the day while the generator was off, my friend wired an outlet directly to the output of the genset to power lights in the room where the generator was housed. The outlet had come out of another building and was a pigtail of Romex with the J-box and outlet all wired up. Only problem was that whoever wired the building got the neutral and hot shorted together. Disconnected the new outlet and all was well. Only took about three hours to find it!

Take care - Elden
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  #27  
Old 02-28-2006, 07:17 AM
Webber G Webber G is offline
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Default Re: CCK Control board

Thank you Ted for some of your ideas on my control board failure. I am shipping the board out for repair again. I have checked the wiring and have not found any problems. I have a new 900 cca. battery and had cleaned the DC brushes. I am also thinking that terminal 2 for start disconnect may be the problem. This model does not has the extra adapter board. I like the idea of additional fuse protection. My generator has the in-line F1 fuse for terminal 5. I will have to find some current ratings for fuses and install. When the board returns I will have to add each line one at a time and hope it won't short out Q2 again.
I will report back on what I find. Thanks again, Webber
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  #28  
Old 02-28-2006, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: CCK Control board

Hi Webber,

My guess is that the total current going to the control board is less than 15 amps.

I would add fuses first! you could just put one 15 amp fuse where the gen dc brushes connect to the big resistor (G1R1) inside the end bell at terminal 2.

You should be able to get the gen running with all the dc wires from the gen disconnected (2,7,8) while the start switch is held down. Only do this for a moment - you will be putting 32 volts to your battery.
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  #29  
Old 02-28-2006, 08:51 PM
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Default Easy Troubleshooting

Hi Webber

Here's an easy way to figure out the basics:

Disconnect the control board completely

Connect the battery in terminal 5 ( should be a fused lead) to terminal 6 - to coil.

Use a screwdriver to short the K1 relay left side (battery) to the control terminal.

The gen should crank and start!

Good luck!
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  #30  
Old 03-01-2006, 08:28 AM
Webber G Webber G is offline
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Default Re: CCK Control board

Hello, Having another cold morning here,
I can apply 12 volts to the starter solenoid and crank the engine over without the control board, what was making me scratch my head is when I installed the control board and before I push the start switch, Q2 had already shorted out. I looked over the G1R1 area again to see what I would need for a fuse set up. I looked at G1CR11 and found it to be a 3 amp doide. Not sure of the voltage rating. I looked to see if I could find a part number for the diode last night, no luck. I will go shopping for the fuses and holders and anything else I might need and try to have everything ready when the board returns from the shop. Thanks, Webber
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  #31  
Old 03-01-2006, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: CCK Control board

Hi Webber,
G1CR11 is just there to blow fuse F1 if you connect the battery backwards. Radio Shack should have everything you need for fuse holders and diodes - I just replaced/added all on mine with parts from there.

For troubleshooting, I would just leave that off.

I would check the wires from G1R1 to terminals 2,7 and 8 for shorts. Maybe your wires to the control board have been mislabeled? Make sure terminal 9 goes to the K1 relay control terminal and is not shorted, for instance,

Good luck...!
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  #32  
Old 03-28-2006, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: CCK Control board

Ted did you get the flywheel ok.Sorry for all the peanuts in the box but it is all I had.Real fun to open on a windy day.
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  #33  
Old 03-28-2006, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: CCK Control board

Hi Billy,

I haven't got it yet. When did you send it?

Thanks again for all!

Ted
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  #34  
Old 03-29-2006, 07:47 AM
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Default Re: CCK Control board

Turned it over to shipping lasr week.Will check with them.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:56 PM
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Default 4.0 CCk Electronics Board 300c859 info

Quote:
Originally Posted by ted_cool View Post
...
I got lucky and got the Onan Controls and Training Manual 932-0406 Feb 1976 ....
Just curious, does anyone have this manual in PDF format ???


Thanks!
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