Survival engine

["TheToolman"]

I have gotten a still that will make ethinol or grain alcahol(can't drink it) .
any you guru's tell me an engine I can get that will run on or run with little modifications?
Thank you
Dan

[Chuck Martin]

Most any plug fired engines can run on the corn fuel. Ignitors tend to short out..
One word of caution...

Check with your local ATF agent. It is 10 yrs in the big house ( Federal offense) for distilling any spirits, drinking or otherwise. Check the BATF site, and you can get the facts. It's pretty clear, can't own, make, know of the activity, live in the same house, etc..

Check it out, be careful, you never know who might rat you out!

[Peter]

Chuck are you sure about that, generally these laws apply to making for sale. For instance, you can brew beer and wine in limited quantities for you own use. I would think making fuel for your own use would be legit.

[CWC]

I looked into that once and, from what I understood you can "brew" so many gallons of beer and wine per year for personal use as brewing results in alcohol through a natural process, however you cannot "distill" any type of alcohol for any reason without a federal permit.
BTW- Grain alcohol IS the kind you can drink, wood alcohol is the kind that will kill you after it makes you blind and you suffer hours of excruciating abdominal pain. I think both can be poisonous if distilled improperly though.

[Sluffs]

You ferment or brew beer and wine , but you distill the good stuff..

[KeithW]

Not sure of the costs involved but you can get Federal permits to distill your own fuel. No doubt some kind of book keeping involved.

[Peter]

I found two item of interest on the BATF site. First quote:

"A still is defined as apparatus capable of being used to separate ethyl alcohol from a mixture that contains alcohol. Small stills (with a cubic distilling capacity of a gallon or less) that are used for laboratory purposes or for distilling water or other non-alcoholic materials are exempt from our rules."

This implies small stills are exempt, but just what is a labatory purposes is not stated. I think this maybe a way to make small amounts to play with as engine fuel?

Second quote:
"As an alternative, Federal law allows us to issue a permit for an alcohol fuel plant, or AFP. Under this type of permit, experiments with alcohol fuels can be conducted at locations properly qualified with ATF."

This sounds like something very impractical for home. Beaurocratic nightmare and bonding etc...

There was also some grudging recognition of the needs and beniefit to generate alternative fuels. Per certain legislation.

I get the definate impression these guys dont give a damn about the energy situation- its all about power, arresting citizens, and collection of the holy excise taxes.

[MoRo]

If memory serves, ethanol plants that produce the alcohol for mixing with gas for E-85 and 10% ethanol/gasoline mix a bit less than a half percent of gasoline with their finished product to render it undrinkable before sending it to their storage facilities. That might be one technicality that could help you be in good graces with the law.

[Gasengn]

Last year an exhibitor at the Old Threshers Reunion at Mt Pleasant, Iowa ran a 1 1/2 HP IHC M on alcohol made from apples.

[Chuck Martin]

I went through this last year, and unless some drastic changes have taken place in the laws, there is no way an individual can get a permit to distill any type of spirits.
The "lab" is strictly regulated college and industrial research deals only.
Where you do it and how you do it even as a industry is regulated.
"I didn't know" dose not get you far when the BATF comes a knocking.

[J. Marti]

here in Mn you can make as much distilled product as you want but you have to mix kerosene into the finished product making it undrinkable and fuel only.

[Peter]

How much do you need to run a hit miss engine? I quote:

"A still is defined as apparatus capable of being used to separate ethyl alcohol from a mixture that contains alcohol. Small stills (with a cubic distilling capacity of a gallon or less) that are used for laboratory purposes or for distilling water or other non-alcoholic materials are exempt from our rules."

I read this as "small stills are exempt"

[DanR]

Peter is right. The ATF guys are not interested in you unless you start selling it to the local sheriff. A couple years ago a guy got busted here for running a business his family had run for generations. The (raid) was by ATF, county sheriff, and state troopers. Destroyed his still and over 500 gal. of product. He was tried by the county court. The big boys don't want to be bothered with this little stuff. He got 6 months house arrest and $100 fine. So, if you want to play around just don't raise any red flags. Home made ethanol is many times more expensive than gasoline. Consider it a hobby. BTW, are you the guy I sold my still to last summer?

[Chuck Martin]

This will give you all the info you need to apply for a permit...
Hope you have deep pockets..


http://www.atf.treas.gov/alcohol/inf...cfrpart019.htm

[Fermanides]

Here is a link to an Associated Press article this week that tells the story of a start-up business in TN that makes and sales stills for the purpose of making ethanol for personal use. Appears to be legal - if you put the poison pill in it. This little mom & pop start-up has recently added 10 employees so they can fill their orders. I bet business picked up even more now that the AP has published the article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060515/...e/homemade_gas

[CWC]

It does say in that article that you need a federal permit to distill alcohol, even for fuel, and adding the poison is on the honor system. It does not say what it takes to get a permit and admits they do not know anyone who is producing fuel. I wish we knew someone who was doing this that could give some accurate insight. I also am wondering about "producer gas" which is methane fuel from wood. I've heard there are ways to run engines that way too.

[HoMade]

Actually, getting the permit from the ATF is relatively simple and not expensive. There is no cost for the permit if you are seeking to make under 10,000 gallons a year. The form is about 2 or 3 pages.

http://theethanolsource.com/library/index.php/Permit

[Monte Stock]

Damned revnoors!

[Andrew Mackey]

For those interested - DO NOT PUT E-85 in older autos with carbs The resulting galvanic action between the brass parts and the zinc or aluminum alloys, will render your carbs into junk. Also - E 85 will attack certain rubber parts in earlier fuel systems. BE CAREFUL
Andrew

[Patrick Marsh]

Originally Posted by Peter

Chuck are you sure about that, generally these laws apply to making for sale. For instance, you can brew beer and wine in limited quantities for you own use. I would think making fuel for your own use would be legit.

Making fuel IS ILLEGAL!!! unless you register with the BATF and pay taxes on it to the IRS! Sucks don't it.