Flambeau Boat Motor

[Frank Martin]

I just came into posession of a Flambeau 5 horsepower outboard motor. Does anybody know anything about these? This particular specimen appears to be very well preserved, but I don't know anything about outboards. I'd like to take it fishing this weekend, but what should I check before I go out with it. The mixing instructions are 2/3 of a pint of Texaco 40 weight outboard motor oil to 1 gallon of gasoline. If I did the math right, that comes to 12:1. Seems like a lot of oil to me, but perhaps outboards have different requirements than weedwackers. It also says that I need to grease the lower unit. I don't see a zerk fitting, so what should I be looking for? Any suggestions are appreciated.

[George Andreasen]

Your Flambeau is an unusual critter. The entire engine splits in two halves right down the middle from the top to the skeg to allow servicing or repair and they can be a handful to reassemble. They also have some collector value, so go easy! The older outboards used a much richer oil/gas ratio than our modern two cycles so the mix instructions are probably correct, but use a modern two cycle oil (not the 100:1 stuff) instead of motor oil..much cleaner.
I'm not completely familiar with the Flambeau, but most of my old outboards have two plugs in the lower unit with screwdriver slots. You removed both then pumped a tube of outboard grease (Napa, Walmart) in from the BOTTOM hole until it oozes out the top. This forces any water and crud out. Replace both plugs and you're done. Do this after EVERY run to be safe.
Never run the motor out of the water...it should have some sort of pump for cooling and running it dry for even a few seconds will destroy the impeller.
I'd mix my fuel, check the lower end grease, pull the plugs and spin test for spark then hang it in a sturdy barrel of water. Follow the start instructions and get her going then immediately see if water is being pumped out somewhere, proving you have circulation. If all checks out hang it on a boat and go....but bring your emergency power (oars) just in case.
Check out the Antique Ouboard Collectors site on the internet...very much like Harry's with question/answer forums and some very knowledgable people.

[Andrew Mackey]

Frank,
Do not use modern 2 stroke oil in the engine! The new oils do not have the lubricity of the older - thicker oils. SAE 40 Non Detergent oil is what you want. That is pretty heavy stuff. You are correct on the ratio - 12:1. I have several Pacific Engineering fire pumps, as well as a Mall 7-H chain saw that use the same mix. These engines have cast iron liners, pistons, rings, as well as bronzr rod and main bearings. The modern lubes will not do the job, as they are for hardened, high speed engines. Once these engines warm up, there is not much smoke, unless the engines are heavily loaded.
On another note - for users of lawn and marine engines: Look very carefully at the container of 2 stroke oil you are buying! I recently went to a local auto parts store, and ran no less than 3 different types of 2 cycle-stroke oils! One is for oil injected marine engines, one is for air cooled pre-mix (the every day stuff), and one was for air cooled oil injected engines.
First order of business - oil made for oil injected engines is cut with mineral spirits, to allow it to flow thry the pump easier, and to allow it to mix easily with the gasoline vapor, once it leaks out of the bearings, into the crankcase. This oil directly lubricates the bearings, in its diluted form. Once it mixes with gas, it looses its lubricity, and becomes fuel for the engine. DO NOT USE INJECTOR OIL AS PRE-MIX OIL When cut with gas- the ability to lubricate the engine internal parts is severly comprimised.
Second, do not use marine 2 stroke/cycle oils in an air cooled engine, especially high performance engines. Marine oil is made to operate at much lower temperatures than that made for air cooled 2 stroke/cycle engines - (180 drgrees F vs 750 to 800 degrees F head and cylender temp). If you use marine oil in an air cooled engine, the oikl will varnish in the crankcase, leading to early piston and cylender wear, as well as bearing failure. If you use air cooled oil in a marine engine, it may not mix properly with the fuel, in a much lower temperature environment, leading to plug fouling, and water pollution, as the unburned, unmixed oil is passed thru the engine exhaust, into the water.
Third, do not use premix oil in an oil injected engine. The oil injected engine depends on the injecter type oil to cool the bearings, as well as to lubricate them. The oil is pumped into the bearing. Once there, it cools the bearing, keeping tolerances tight, and then the oil flows out of the bearing resevoir, into the crankcase. The precise amount of oil used is metered by the engine, throttle setting, to maintain constant tolerances, at all speeds (higher speed,/load means more oil). With Pre-mix, the amount of oil is constant. It is washed thru the engine, and then is discarded, Premix fuel/oil mixture will not properly get onto the engine bearings, and will not provide the cooling the engine needs.
Last, use the SAE 40 the engine calls for. If you use SAE 30, the oil may be too thin for the engine lube needs.
Andrew

[Andrew Mackey]

Frank,
Do not use modern 2 stroke oil in the engine! The new oils do not have the lubricity of the older - thicker oils. SAE 40 Non Detergent oil is what you want. That is pretty heavy stuff. You are correct on the ratio - 12:1. I have several Pacific Engineering fire pumps, as well as a Mall 7-H chain saw that use the same mix. These engines have cast iron liners, pistons, rings, as well as bronzr rod and main bearings. The modern lubes will not do the job, as they are for hardened, high speed engines. Once these engines warm up, there is not much smoke, unless the engines are heavily loaded.
On another note - for users of lawn and marine engines: Look very carefully at the container of 2 stroke oil you are buying! I recently went to a local auto parts store, and ran no less than 3 different types of 2 cycle-stroke oils! One is for oil injected marine engines, one is for air cooled pre-mix (the every day stuff), and one was for air cooled oil injected engines.
First order of business - oil made for oil injected engines is cut with mineral spirits, to allow it to flow thry the pump easier, and to allow it to mix easily with the gasoline vapor, once it leaks out of the bearings, into the crankcase. This oil directly lubricates the bearings, in its diluted form. Once it mixes with gas, it looses its lubricity, and becomes fuel for the engine. DO NOT USE INJECTOR OIL AS PRE-MIX OIL When cut with gas- the ability to lubricate the engine internal parts is severly comprimised.
Second, do not use marine 2 stroke/cycle oils in an air cooled engine, especially high performance engines. Marine oil is made to operate at much lower temperatures than that made for air cooled 2 stroke/cycle engines - (180 drgrees F vs 750 to 800 degrees F head and cylender temp). If you use marine oil in an air cooled engine, the oikl will varnish in the crankcase, leading to early piston and cylender wear, as well as bearing failure. If you use air cooled oil in a marine engine, it may not mix properly with the fuel, in a much lower temperature environment, leading to plug fouling, and water pollution, as the unburned, unmixed oil is passed thru the engine exhaust, into the water.
Third, do not use premix oil in an oil injected engine. The oil injected engine depends on the injecter type oil to cool the bearings, as well as to lubricate them. The oil is pumped into the bearing. Once there, it cools the bearing, keeping tolerances tight, and then the oil flows out of the bearing resevoir, into the crankcase. The precise amount of oil used is metered by the engine, throttle setting, to maintain constant tolerances, at all speeds (higher speed,/load means more oil). With Pre-mix, the amount of oil is constant. It is washed thru the engine, and then is discarded, Premix fuel/oil mixture will not properly get onto the engine bearings, and will not provide the cooling the engine needs.
Last, use the SAE 40 the engine calls for. If you use SAE 30, the oil may be too thin for the engine lube needs.
Andrew

[Frank Martin]

As you described George, I found the plugs for the grease. The lower one is larger and appears to be 1/8"-27 NPT threads, whereas the upper appears to be just some machine screw thread. I think I can buy the outboard grease in a cartridge to fit my grease gun. I'm thinking I could get a 1/8"-27 NPT pipe plug and drill a hole through it and tap it to accept a zerk fitting and then I could just use this adapter to attach my grease gun. Is that how this is supposed to work?

As for the oil mix, I think I'll take your suggestion Andrew and stick with the manufacturers spec. They say 40 weight outboard motor oil, Texaco to be specific. Somebody over at Flambeau must have been getting a kickback from the Texaco people. The Texaco stuff might be a bit tough to find, but I'll inquire at one of the local boat dealers about a 40 weight premix outboard product. I doubt I'm the only guy running some ancient obsolete engine, so they should know where to find it.

[grub54891]

Well they call it grease but it's really 80-90 gear lube.They sell it at most parts stores and wallmarts.Take out both plug's and squeeze it in the bottom till it comes out the top.reinstall top plug first then the bottom one.they sell pumps for them to, only about 5 bucks.
At our shop we test the lower unit's with a pressure/vac tester, they should hold 15 pounds pressure, some only hold 5 pounds vac but thats ok as long as there is no water when you drain it.Napa sells re-seal kit's for them but an older one may need to check at a marine shop.dont use grease from your grease gun!
Tom