GM/Faibanks Morse diesel fire pump

[greggL]

My company owns and old warehouse that we use for storage. It's an old shut down paper mill. With the recent flooding, the diesel fire pump was submerged for a couple of weeks. A buddy of mine and I took up the task of resurrecting the beast. It's a Fairbanks Morse skid mounted fire pump with a GM diesel engine. It's a Detroit 3 cylinder, roots blown, 2-stroke. It's direct coupled to the pump, no PTO. We drained the crankcase, which was mostly water. Changed the filters, dumped 4 gallons of motor oil in it and turned it by hand for a few turns and cranked it over with the battery. We hit it with some ether and she fired right up. We drained it, changed filters and refilled it a few times and all seems pretty good. The last time we ran it we let it go for about an hour to get it up to temp and it had stopped putting out much vapor from the oil spout and the inside of the rocker cover didn't have any moisture in it. On the tag it has a model # 3061-A Z, Unit 3A-48978, 85 HP @ 1750 RPM. Does anybody know anything about this engine? Size, history, techincal information. All I know is what I see.........and I don't know what I'm looking at.

[ronm]

There has been literally millions of the 2-stroke Detroit Diesels built, & used in every conceivable application. Parts, manuals, etc. are still available from Detroit dealers. If the valve cover fastens on w/ hand-grip knobs in the middle, it's a 71 series, if it bolts on w/stove bolts around the perimeter, it's a 53. The numbers denote cu. in. per cyl., i.e. a 3-71 would be 213 cu. in. A dealer could give you the age & configuration from the numbers you have. Screamin' Jimmies are a unique beast, there's nothing else quite like them...
Ron in CO...

[ListerDiesel]

Sounds like you have covered most things that anyone else would do, once it has got up to temperature then most of the stray water in the engine should evaporate out.

The Roots blower and bearings are the most 'delicate' parts, for want of a better expression, but as long as the oil has been changed a couple of times and it runs and sounds OK, you should be safe. Plenty of GM 2-Cycle diesel books on ebay most weeks or look on:

www.AbeBooks.com.

I have one here in the small service book library, should be easy to find one over there in the USA (We are in the UK)

Peter

[greggL]

Thanks for the quick reply guys! It has two hand knobs in the center of the rocker cover. That would make it a 3-71, I guess. Before we turned it over by hand I poured a small amount of motor oil into the air inlet because it showed a little surface rust in there and I wasn't sure if there was any rust in where the lobes of the blower are. Didn't seem to hurt it and not enough to hydro lock it. After we ran it for a while, the oil on the dipstick looked pretty clean. The first time we ran it the overspeed trip switch was full of water and the engine only ran on what I would describe as a low idle. We didn't realize the air inlet "damper" was closed and it was running pig rich. The oil got black almost immediately. After drying out the overspeed trip switch it resumed to 1750 RPM operation and we changed the oil again because we had messed it up by running it so rich. Do you fellas know the correct operating temperature for an engine like this? It runs at about 190 deg F. Now the next step is to figure out the relay contol panel that starts the engine automatically in the event of a fire. It's all relays and it was also submerged for a couple of weeks. I think some are junk. This should be fun.

[ListerDiesel]

Originally Posted by greggL

Do you fellas know the correct operating temperature for an engine like this? It runs at about 190 deg F.

It needs to be at a decent temperature, that figure sounds OK to me for a pressurised system, as long as it is stable and the radiator is evenly heated with no cold patches. Check that you do have full circulation through the core if possible.

Peter

[Ray Cardoza]

could ya post a picture? id like to see what it looks like thanks

[J.B. Castagnos]

I read somewhere that Detroit Diesels are the most efficient means ever developed for turning diesel into noise.

[MoRo]

Originally Posted by J.B. Castagnos

I read somewhere that Detroit Diesels are the most efficient means ever developed for turning diesel into noise.

Truer words were never spoken. However, they're a tough engine and will give you many hours of service. That's why they've been used in so many applications.

190 degrees is right in the operating range for any diesel engine. In fact, if you can get 'em to run 200-205 it's even better!!

[greggL]

Originally Posted by ListerDiesel

It needs to be at a decent temperature, that figure sounds OK to me for a pressurised system, as long as it is stable and the radiator is evenly heated with no cold patches. Check that you do have full circulation through the core if possible.

Peter

Peter,

No radiator on this one. Once through city water tapped off the fire main. The thermostat seemed to do its job. Solenoid valves for water and fuel and a solenoid on the "damper". All of them fed power from the fire pump relay control panel. The tach doesn't work so I checked it with a digital readout strobe light.

Ray,

I'll try to get a picture of it but it ain't pretty. It was submerged so as the water level dropped it left an oily, dirty coating of goo on everything. I probably will leave it that way.....to preserve the metal. It's the standard green color I've read about.

Gregg

[greggL]

Hi guys....me again. I didn't forget about the pictures. I just got a new digital camera and I need to post some pics so you guys can help me identify some components. This engine was submerged again for about a week and I was so busy that I couldn't dry it out as quickly as last time. This engine is pretty darn tough. I went back a few weeks after the water had receded and drained the water out of it. All the electrics were soaking wet so I couldn't get it to start. I just drained the crankcase and dumped five gallons of clean motor oil in the rocker box and called it a day. We started the reclaimation project in earnest again and got it to fire and run for a short period but then it stops. It has a Woodward governor on it and has a large 12V solenoid that hold the plunger in and two small solenoid valves the seem to come off the copper lines on the outside of the block (oil galleys??). I believe that the engine gets the command to start from the relay panel and starts and runs. I think the two solenoid valves are supposed to be open (they aren't currently working) so that engine oil pressure holds the plunger in. Then a timing relay times out and it stops if you don't have oil pressure. Has anyone seen a governor that operates like that. This is conjecture based on observation. We poked and prodded around and found a circuit breaker that was dead and not supplying 12 VDC to some of the circuits. We jumped it out and checked amps....it only pulled 3 amps so we were pretty sure it's just a bad breaker. When we jumped the breaker, those solenoid valves clicked and the engine would start and continue to run after the timing relay timed out. I will get some pics and post them up. I wil try to get some close ups of the governor and some of the other components. TIA!

[ListerDiesel]

Woodward governors used oil pressure as the actuating medium, they even did a small model with electronic control that used oil pressure, we've got a box of them with the control panels in the workshop somewhere, model 2301.

A lot of engines used Woodward, I have some F-M manuals which I think have the Woodward governor manual in the back. I'll check that out tonight and post back with some governor model numbers.

Just thought, I'm travelling to Glasgow tonight so that will be Saturday or Sunday before I'm back home.

The very large models take two guys to lift them...

Peter

[greggL]

OK, I got some pictures. The first one appears to be a speed switch. It has two sets of contact that close at different speeds. I assume the first contact would be for a "engine running" signal and the second would be an "overspeed trip" signal I am not sure if they're independently adjustable. The second pic is the Woodward governor. At the top is the big 12 VDC solenoid plunger that pulls in to allow the engine to start. The little solenoid valve down and to the right appears to take oil pressure from the engine to hold the governor plunger in after the big solenoid times out. There is another solenoid valve just like the one in front located behind the governor. Most everything on this fire pump engine is redundant....because it's a fire pump. Two batteries, two solenoids, two charging circuits, two starting circuits. OK, I'll try to post the pics now.....looks like the picture of the Woodward governor needs to be rotated 90 deg CW...sorry

I've also included a picture of the whole shebang.....

[K D Redd]

GM DD are also good at leaking oil. If a DD Is not leaking oil it is NOT runnig though the Fire Dept. Dad is with was given a Fire truck with a 8V-71 that does not leak. Major overhaul by a DD dealer before they go it. My uncle has a old Fire Truck, power by a 6-71, we made into a tractor to move his dozer. The 6-71 does not leak in this truck. I worry about both engines.

Kent