Need help identifying a tiny New Holland model

[CliffordDWard]

Hopefully someone in the group can help me identify a model I obtained recently. A photo of the engine can be seen at:

http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/commun...eid=260051&ck=

The engine is obviously is patterned after a Hew Holland hit & miss engine, but is TINY! The flywheels are 2" diameter. Bore appears about 7/16" and stroke about 5/8". All the components work as on the prototype: Igniter ignition, proper functioning latch on the flywheel, fuel adjuster on the mixer, fuel tank in base, and even a throttle. I have run it several times now using Ozark fuel with 5% WD-40...I was even able to make a few adjustments and get the engine to freewheel between "hits" although with the small size about 3 revolutions betw0een firings was a good as I could get. The engine starts by use of a rubber wheel (from sanding disks) in a cordless Dremel tool. Engine castings appear to be all or mostly brass, with a proper sleeve in the cylinder.

Has anybody seen this engine model before? I did find a photo from 2000 NAMES showing what appears to be an engine from the same castings in assembled but unpainted form....unfortunately no description.

George Luhrs has the tiny Stover he offers, but I am not aware that he made a New Holland model in the past, so I don't think this is from him. Size is similar to the Luhrs Stover, perhaps slightly larger.

One other question for the group...the fellow who traded it to me says he uses Coleman fuel with 10% "baby oil" for lubrication....has anyone heard of such a thing? I imagine given the small size of the engine it may be sensitive to fuel type...it does run good on 5% WD-40, and with water in the hopper I can run it continuously for 8 minutes with the water still not too hot (meaning I can still stick my finger in the water without burning).

Any assistance from the group would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Cliff Ward

[Kelly Tytlandsvik]

Only other New Holland model I have seen (from castings) was sold by Paul Breisch but it had about a 7/8 bore and aprox 4 inch flywheels. I have never seen one this small.
As far as fuel goes a lot of guys use coleman camp fuel. Some like to add a little oil to the gas. I use 2 cycle oil but some use Marvel Mystery oil and some just use a little 10/30 in the oil. Another fuel that works quit well is aviation fuel.....just go to the local municipal airport and ask to buy a gallon of gas.

Kelly T

[Paul Spence]

Cliff: I have a similar model all in brass. They were made by Pierre (?) (PA-NJ)from lost wax castings. He made some with iron flywheels, but one was enough. I haven't seen him around for several years and he was working on some other minatures hit and miss models. I don't know if he is still in business? Attached is a photo of mine sitting on a 4HP Mogul for size comparision

[CliffordDWard]

Thanks Paul, I appreciate the information. I have been able to obtain an instruction page about the engine that includes details of starting, running and fiddling with the adjustments, but unfortunately manufacturer information is not included on these sheets.

I hope to locate the orginal builder as the buna-n gaskets on my intake tube have degrated to the point of falling apart. I cannot locate an o-ring small enough for this location and according to the instruction sheet these appear to be custom gasket rings cut from sheet buna-n.

If I cannot locate the builder before Cabin Fever in January I'll plan to take the engine there in hopes someone will be able to help.

Regards,
Cliff

[Allen]

The summer Iron Fever expo will be in Leesport, Pa on Sep 1 & 2. see: http://www.cabinfeverexpo.com/Someone there might know.

[CliffordDWard]

I had hoped to go to Leesport in September but I have a prior commitment to attend a local antique farm days show. Plus I won't have my scale model buzzcoil battery boxes ready to introduce until later in the fall, so wouldn't have anything to offer for the Iron Fever show....I look forward to talking with you in January if you are there. Regards, Cliff

[Allen]

My spaces are already paid for, both for Iron Fever and Cabin Fever --Now whether I can afford the GAS to actually GET there is another story!

I sure hope people have a few sheckels left to spend there, it's been a loooong dry year for us. :

[MarylandSteam]

I saw these at R&T in kinser about 5 years ago, there was a guy selling them but I don't have his card anymore... When i come across it I'll post the info.

I remember him because I asked to buy a casting kit and he just started babbling about how he only sells complete kits because he doesn't want to become a parts dealer for people that screw up trying to machine it... riiiight, i wasn't impressed with his machine work and he wouldn't sell me a kit so I didn't get one....

[CliffordDWard]

Thanks for the additional info. If you by chance find the fellow's card I would sure appreciate obtaining his contact information. The mixer tube on this little engine has a set of tiny buna-n gaskets that have gone bad and I cannot locate anything commercially available that is even close to the size...I beleive he must have made them up by hand. Since mine are shot the air/fuel mixture is easily messed up and idle is sometimes erratic. I have considered soldering or otherwise sealing the tube in the casting body, but would like to try to duplicate the original model engine design first if possible. So if you find his name and address or phone number I'd sure appreciate it. Regards, Cliff

[MarylandSteam]

Can you post a picture and some measurements of what you need and maybe someone can point you in the right direction...

[CliffordDWard]

Thanks for your note....my first post at the beginning of this thread has a link to photos with a ruler showing size...let me know if additional data is desired. Regards, Cliff

[CliffordDWard]

Oh I get it now when I read your post again...you are talking about photos of the tiny o-rings on the carb, right? I'll try to take some macro images tomorrow and then will post them....sorry I misunderstood at first....Regards, Cliff

[Andrew Mackey]

The gentleman in question went to many shows, selling the tiny model New Holland. I too have one. It runs OK, but the governor needs a lot if refining, and on most of the models, it did not work. The engines hit and miss due to fuel puddling, for the most part. Coleman fuel was recommended, as it would not carbon up the igniter, like gasoline did. He also mixed in Marvel Mystry Oil, but I don't remember the ratio, right now. If you need the info, I can look it up. I bought one of the first he sold. He sold them for 7 or 8 years, at the Jacktown show, Delaware Valley, and The Threshermans Reunion at Kinzers! I too have not seen him for the last two years. As I remember it, the engine he took to shows, actually hit and missed. It coasted with no compression. He told me a friend spent over 200 hours machining parts, so that the governor would act properly. The lost wax work, although close, was imperfect. He was working on another model engine, one with an enclosed crankcase, but I never saw one of the type running. He had a number of castings, in various states of machine work, though. If no one comes up with his name, try to ask Dick Shelly. I believe he knew him.
Andrew

[MarylandSteam]

I think the enclosed crankcase version was a stover.

[Paul Spence]

Yes it was a Stover . I never saw a finished one .

[Eric Schultz]

The gentleman in question is:

Pierre L. Decrouez
1121 Muhlenberg Ave.
Swarthmore, PA 19081
610-543-7089

This info is from a card he gave me a few years ago. He is, (or was) working on a little Nanzy cast from bronze too!
Good luck!
Eric

[CliffordDWard]

Thanks for the address info Eric....I confirmed during this year's Cabin Fever that Pierre was indeed the maker of this little engine. It seems perhaps he now lives in Florida, at least several people mentioned that.

The governer on my engine does indeed function, although only a few revolutions between firings. I also found the mixer to be a bit "touchy" although I think this is due to the seals being old...no doubt by replacing the seals the running characteristics would be renewed.

BTW, I sold this engine during Cabin Fever to help finance my new model Buzzcoil offering (BuzzcoilBatteryBox.com), so now there is a lucky new owner to enjoy the tiny running engine.

Thanks again to all who helped me identify this engine.

Regards,
Cliff