V12 flat head ford engine

[Phillip Hutchinson]

G'day
a friend went to a property near here this week and seen 2 x V12 side valve ford engines,they had ford cast into the heads,anyonne able to shead any light on these engines,he said they are like a side valve ford engine with an extra 4 cylinders same water pumps ect
Regards Phillip
Australia

[Pete Wygant]

Didn't the Lincoln Zephyrs have a v-12? Ford product of 39-40....

[Farquhar]

The V-12 lincoln was fairly common in the early to late 50's. They were not made later than the early '50's though. I do believe 1952 was the last yr they were built.
I may not be right on the dates, but do remember them back then.

[ListerDiesel]

Originally Posted by Phillip Hutchinson

G'day
a friend went to a property near here this week and seen 2 x V12 side valve ford engines,they had ford cast into the heads,anyonne able to shead any light on these engines,he said they are like a side valve ford engine with an extra 4 cylinders same water pumps ect
Regards Phillip
Australia

Little bit of info off the web:

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448

The original 448 in³ (7.3 L) Lincoln V12 was used in the large Model KB line for 1932 and 1933. It produced 150 hp (112 kW) and was an unusual 65° L-head design. The large crankshaft was supported by seven main bearings.
[edit]

382

Lincoln introduced another V12 the very next year to replace the aging V8 in the KA model. This 382 in³ (6.3 L) engine was quite different in design from the KB's massive engine but would serve the company for many years even though it was enlarged the next year.
[edit]

414

The KA's 382 V12 was enlarged for 1934 to replace the 1932-design 448. This new engine displaced 414 in³ (6.8 L) and produced 150 hp (112 kW). All Lincolns in 1934 (both KA and KB models) were powered by this new 414 V12, and the distinction between models was dropped, with all 1935 Lincolns being simply branded "Model K". The 414 would last through the end of the Model K's production just before World War II.
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From Wikipaedia.

Peter

[Ronald E. McClellan]

I remember the Lincoln Continental with a V 12 engine. It was smaller than the K models and was made up until 1947 or 1948. They were noted for burning oil really bad at a relatively low milage. Ron

[Phillip Hutchinson]

ok gents thanks for the info ,i'll pass it on would be nice to hear one running
Regards Phillip

[John G. Simpson]

last lincoln v12 was made in 1948. 1949 thru1951 was a 317 cu. in. v8
i bought a 1947 continental in 1950, 37xxx miles on it, wouldn't pass a service station, gas or oil. we had a 1935 pierce arrow at the same time with a 175 hp v 12. good on oil, gas 4.5 mpg on the road, 3 in town.
john

[Andrew Mackey]

I am in the process of finishing the rebuild of an American La-France 'Junior' V-12. 527 CID, 215 HP. It weighs in the area of 1,000 pounds, and is in our fire department's 1948 ALF Quad-4 (Cities Service chassis - extended) Our truck is a production prototype. These engines were originally produced by Auburn. I have been told that similar engines were also built by contenental, in fact, the heads bolt up, on both blocks. However cooling passages do not line up properly on the ALF block, with the Con. heads. As a side note - I have seen quite a few ford tractors with the flat head eight installed. I have been told it was a bolt in retro! One that blew everyones mind at a Delaware Valley Show, several years ago was one with the V 12 in it! Its installation was so clean, it looked factory! (the frame had to be lengthened, and the cowl as well).
Andrew

[John Schwiebert]

For the comment on the V=8 in the Ford tractor a kit was made by Funk Aircraft to put a 6 cylinder (more common) or a V-8 engine in these tractors.

[PFT]

I was at Hanford Mills Saturday (9/26/09) and the same Lincoln Zephyr V12 was there that I saw on 9/9/06 and I wasn't thinking and didn't take pictures then. So this time I took some just for this thread.
Enjoy
PT

[OTTO-Sawyer]

There's a pair of older gentlemen that usually show up at the local car shows in Freeport IL with an old Lincoln Zepher with the flathead V-12 in it. I believe it's a 1947 but I could be wrong on that. Beautiful unrestored original with just over 48,000 miles on it.

One time we had a pair of Zephers show up side by side.

[Elden DuRand]

Side note:

Because of the weaknesses of the later V-12 Ford engines, a lot of them were replaced with the Ford/Mercury V-8 engines. I've seen several of them.

It was a bolt-in replacement only requiring (as I recall) longer radiator hoses.

Take care - Elden
http://www.oldengine.org/members/durand

[OTTO-Sawyer]

Would also have to drill new holes in the frame for the waterpump / front engine mounts to bolt down on, and probably have to extend the fan shroud so it draws through the radiator instead of around it. And new exhaust pipes or at least modify the old ones to fit the V-8 manifold outlets.

Everything else should be a direct swap. Wiring harness doesn't care if it's hooked up to V-8 or V-12 starter & generator. Temp gage sending unit would be closer to the firewall and easy to bend. Ignition wire to the coil would be a foot shorter, either cut it or just loop it around something. Choke & throttle linkage may need to be modified depending on whether it was solid linkage or cables. Fuel line would need minor modification.

Still a simple swap overall. Easier than swapping a 12 in for an 8 if there isn't room.

[PFT]

Here's the car, 1940 according to the exhibitor sign.
PT

[Sky]

DECENT!! Thats when cars were MADE.

[Andrew Mackey]

2 weeks ago my son Richard and I had the opportunity to drive a 700 series American La-France Fire truck with the Junior V-12. The engine only had one distributor working, so the 527 CID engine was only putting about 80% of its power to the road. It took 12 hours to drive from the Canadian border in upstate NY to it's new home in north eastern NJ! Even at 80% power, the beasty got 5 MPG for the trip! It was a real experience.
Andrew

[OTTO-Sawyer]

Was that a dual distibutor, or a distributor and magneto combination. Some of the early ones had mag/dist. combination to make sure they ran. Start on distributor and switch over to mag when running, or if a plug fouled on one, the other would hopefully keep firing.

Don't know about that 80% power reference though. The second plug isn't going to add any more power, it's just a back up incase the first one misfired. Once the fire is lit, sparking it again isn't going to add anything to it. If you're down to 80% power, then the one system you were running on wasn't "up to snuff". Weak coil, fouled plugs, bad wires, timing off a little.....etc. Of course though, I guess 2 weak systems working together, the second one may help a little, but if either one of them is working right, adding the other shouldn't make any difference.

5 MPG is pretty good for one of those.... Big Engine, Big Truck, .... they were made to get somewhere quick, not economically. A good tune up may help it some, but I wouldn't expect any miracals. Sounds like a FUN Ride !

[Larry Rusch]

If you have ever been in a small aircraft prepping for takeoff you would see the pilot testing the mags by switching them off one at a time and checking the rpm. The rpm had better drop off each time he shuts off one mag (a definite power loss) - or he's got a dead mag on his hands. (of course the engine would stop if he shut off the good mag when the other is dead) When you fly, both mags are on!

[John G. Simpson]

Ron. oil consumption was not so bad, mine almost never exceeded the gas consumption. it was 1942 continental. last v-12 was 1948,1949 to 1952 they used a 336.7 flathead v-8

[OTTO-Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Larry Rusch

If you have ever been in a small aircraft prepping for takeoff you would see the pilot testing the mags by switching them off one at a time and checking the rpm. The rpm had better drop off each time he shuts off one mag (a definite power loss) - or he's got a dead mag on his hands. (of course the engine would stop if he shut off the good mag when the other is dead) When you fly, both mags are on!

OK.... I guess maybe I learned something there, but at the same time it still tells me that one or Both mags aren't quite "up to snuff" there as well, or the head design doesn't promote a good flame front from one or both spark plugs.... You're trying to re-light a fire that's already been lit and if it does make a difference, then it wasn't ignited properly to begin with by one of the systems.

Seems to me what your pilots are really checking is that both systems are working adequately whether the RPM drops off or not. If it drops off more on one than the other, then you know which is the better of the two, but if one drops off some and the other Doesn't drop off at all, then you know at least one of them is working like it should. The one that drops off more is getting weak and needs attention, but unless both fail altogether, they will get you where you're going. If they're Both working perfectly, there still shouldn't be any loss of power switching either of them off. With an airplane though, I can understand the importance of keeping both of them on at the same time though so if a plug fouls on one, the other hopefully makes up for it without your having to react to it.