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Antique Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Antique Gas Engine Discussion

International Harvester LA & LB Engines


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  #1  
Old 10-23-2006, 08:46 PM
bwze bwze is offline
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Default International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Hey folks, first time poster here. I'm really enjoying the site and kudos to all who help manage it. My dad just recently purchased two International Harvester Hit and Miss engines. One's a LA and the other is a LB. I've been researching and trying to find some historical info and pretty much anything dealing with these machines to aid him in his planned restoration. I've done a few searches of the forum and have succeeded in finding a few tidbits on the subject. I really, however, am looking for a little more detailed information. Can anyone point me in the right direction for a source of this type?
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Old 10-23-2006, 08:53 PM
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Doug Kimball Doug Kimball is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

bwze,
Try this link for a manual.
http://www.oldengine.org/docs/IHC_LA_OM.pdf
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  #3  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:26 PM
Randy Werner Randy Werner is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Does anyone know if there is a link for the IHC 1 1/2 M early under stricker. Thanks. Randy
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  #4  
Old 10-23-2006, 10:23 PM
Tom G Tom G is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwze View Post
My dad just recently purchased two International Harvester Hit and Miss engines. One's a LA and the other is a LB.
LA & LB engines are throttle governed, not hit & miss.
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  #5  
Old 10-23-2006, 10:23 PM
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Colin Rush Colin Rush is offline
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Default Binder Books

Call Binder Books at 503-684-2024 for any and all manuals for the International Harvester and McCormick engines. They have the manual for the LB, for the LA, for the early Ms, and the combination one that covers the later Ms and the L and LA.
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Old 10-24-2006, 06:08 AM
bwze bwze is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

What exactly is a throttle governed engine......with respect to how a hit and miss engine works?
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2006, 06:20 AM
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Terry Beasley Terry Beasley is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Throttle governed engines work exactly like your modern lawn mower engine with a governor opperating the butterfly in the carb to control speed. A hit and miss uses the governor to latch the exhaust valve open untill the engine slows enough for the governor to unlatch and let the exhaust valve operate again. The engine just coasts and does not take in fuel while the exhaust valve is latched open.
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Old 10-24-2006, 08:33 PM
KeithT KeithT is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Before He tears them apart, tell him to loook good through the rear inspection plate at how the linkage going to the carb [right under the piston] is set. Thats usually the hardest part on them to re-time to get it back running.The governor assembly near the flywheel turns this linkage going to the carb to control speed and is preset with tension. My dad had A LA in the shed for years, said he was going to rebuild it, I finally did two years ago and got it running.Somehow I ended up with 2 LA'S and 3 L B'S, a Hercules, a Stover, a Massey Harriss, and I think I got a bug of some kind out of that old L A. and I cant name any more for I'm afraid my wife may read it.
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:10 PM
Jim Poteet Jim Poteet is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

howdy... i am jim poteet, austin tx. work on import cars... found an old, LB Intl.harvester stationary engine in a field. all there and not too rusty still free. one rocker is broken... missing valve springs and keepers. oiler also missing... this one will likely run if parts can be found. there is an `antique tractor and stationary engine meet in stonewall tx, mid june. looking for pieces thanks,..
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Old 12-13-2007, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Go to this site and you will find a manual for a LB - http://www.oldengine.org/members/allen/techindex.html
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  #11  
Old 12-13-2007, 11:58 PM
Donnie Devore Sr. Donnie Devore Sr. is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

way to go keith
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithT View Post
Before He tears them apart, tell him to loook good through the rear inspection plate at how the linkage going to the carb [right under the piston] is set. Thats usually the hardest part on them to re-time to get it back running.The governor assembly near the flywheel turns this linkage going to the carb to control speed and is preset with tension. My dad had A LA in the shed for years, said he was going to rebuild it, I finally did two years ago and got it running.Somehow I ended up with 2 LA'S and 3 L B'S, a Hercules, a Stover, a Massey Harriss, and I think I got a bug of some kind out of that old L A. and I cant name any more for I'm afraid my wife may read it.
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  #12  
Old 12-14-2007, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Hey Jim, that Stonewall show is now on Hwy. 16, at the Gillespie county fairgrounds, about 3 miles South of Fredricksburg, on the West side of the Hwy.
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  #13  
Old 12-14-2007, 07:35 PM
Johnny T Johnny T is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

If you need parts or a manual for la's or lb's go to one of the sponsors on here www.hitnmiss.com then print off the manual. They have almost all the parts needed to get an la or lb engine running at a reasonable price.
Johnny
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  #14  
Old 07-02-2012, 12:11 AM
elhoppo elhoppo is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Beasley View Post
Throttle governed engines work exactly like your modern lawn mower engine with a governor opperating the butterfly in the carb to control speed. A hit and miss uses the governor to latch the exhaust valve open untill the engine slows enough for the governor to unlatch and let the exhaust valve operate again. The engine just coasts and does not take in fuel while the exhaust valve is latched open.
My LA has no linkage to carb and no butterfly throttle.It just sucks up the fuel from tank with a check valve tube and mixes with air.What do they call these enginesIt has an outside governor control arm to set the hp.When i tore it apart the gov controls the valve system,the engine coasts for a while before it hits.
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:26 AM
pjjms pjjms is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Then it's may not be an LA. The LA will have a throttle butterfly in the inlet port in the head, not in the carb. The linkage to it is not visable with the engine assembled as it goes through the crankcase directly into the head.

If your engine has a governor working on the exhaust valve it may be an M or even a Mogul. Can you post a picture of it?
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

I have an IH LA that I can't get running smoothly. I have taken the side plate and the head off and cleaned the governor linkage. The engine will start but idles down and will die unless I choke the engine, then it will throttle up and die down again. Have tried to preload the throttle linkage spring before installing the head - the engine ran smooth but way to fast, had to pull spark plug wire. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
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  #17  
Old 08-02-2014, 05:03 AM
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Dale Barnett Dale Barnett is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

First thing that comes to mind is the check valve on the fuel line. Make sure that little ball it is seating and not letting fuel drain back.[reason you need to choke it]
2nd is the fuel line where it screws in to the carb-mixer as they are known for sucking air at this point due to soft white metal cracking and stripping the threads out.
3rd you had the head off so make sure that the little throttle shaft [butter fly] connector is not binding on the head gasket as this is a very common problem.
4th the butter fly should be wide open when not running and the gov. will close it to regulate speed.
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  #18  
Old 08-02-2014, 05:07 AM
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

BWZE, where are you in South Carolina? There are quite a bunch of us old engine guys here. There is a new show on the 16th in Piedmont, SC (near Greenville) -- just show up, Identify yourself to one of the guys exhibiting, and get ready for the conversation you'll get.

Bill Miller
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:02 PM
ballfour ballfour is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Have checked all of the items you listed. Replaced the check valve and verified that it is working properly and checked for leaks in the line. When I take off the back cover, the governor mechanism works smoothly and does not stick in any position. The butterfly is open when not running. Also have taken off the carburetor and checked the governor from the back cover and it works smoothly. Based on your comments I think I will recheck the fuel line connections for leaks.
Thanks for your help
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Old 08-10-2014, 11:10 AM
Farmall Jod Farmall Jod is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

sounds like a check valve issue to me...

had a Massey R-14 with the same problem, would barely run unless the engine carb was near completely covered or "choked".... after a lot of hair pulling realized the check valve was letting fuel drain back into tank and the vacuum to draw fuel wasnt capable of keeping fuel supplied unless I was "choking" the carb and creating more vacuum.

replaced the check valve and problem cured

---------- Post added at 09:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 AM ----------

sorry didnt read the part about changing the check valve, but it does sound like a vacuum leak between the chek valve and carb to me
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  #21  
Old 08-10-2014, 11:36 AM
73eldo 73eldo is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

I question the quality of many of the 'reproduction' valves. I have bought a few from a couple different vendors and they really don't seal very well. I don't know how well they were supposed to work but the ones I played with are barely better than not having anything in the line. The longer the line the worse they were.

A guy told me that there is an inline valve that is used on a 'jet ski' that seals very well but will still operate properly with the low pressures. I have yet to try one.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:16 PM
Farmall Jod Farmall Jod is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

I have been getting my check valves (especially LA/LB) from a vendor on ebay called zkstuff. have had great success with his products (has quite an assortment of engine accessories).

not getting paid to endorse his products, but have had good results with his stuff
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  #23  
Old 08-10-2014, 12:17 PM
ttyR2 ttyR2 is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

I've seen people put a fuel hose on the end of the check valve and run it to another tank. That doesn't work well because the length of fuel line has the fuel run back in to the tank. The check valve has to be on the very end of the fuel line down in the fuel.
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  #24  
Old 08-10-2014, 01:02 PM
Farmall Jod Farmall Jod is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

I agree with ttyR2

the check valve should be as close to the fuel source as possible and the fuel line as short as possible as your relying on vacuum to draw the fuel to the engine, the longer the fuel line the more cranking its going to take to feed the carb and if your check valve is sealing well, your going to lose the prime.
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Old 08-10-2014, 01:02 PM
73eldo 73eldo is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttyR2 View Post
I've seen people put a fuel hose on the end of the check valve and run it to another tank. That doesn't work well because the length of fuel line has the fuel run back in to the tank. The check valve has to be on the very end of the fuel line down in the fuel.
I'm curious about this theory. Why would it make a difference? If its midway in the line vs in the tank? If it will keep the fuel from back flowing that would also prevent the 'downstream' part of the line from draining. Vertical vs horizontal I could see being different because of gravity. I can see the length especially vertical making a difference just because of the increased weight but that would not change depending on the location of the valve.

I have bought stuff from 'zkstuff'. The parts were ok but i didn't like his packing or service. I got the tracking saying item shipped immediately as promised. Package did not arrive, gave it a few extra days and tried to contact him. Was a several day delay in his response were he said that the shipment must have been lost and he would re ship the whole order. OK I guess stuff happens and it maybe was not his fault. A few days later the original shipment shows. Its all thrown in one of those bubble wrap envelopes. All the individual packages are open and all parts are floating around loose in the envelope. Gaskets just thrown in loose and are bent. Spark plugs out of their boxes banging into each other and the other stuff. Fuel line bent. Stuff is still usable but could have been much better with a little more care. I notify him that the condition was not the best and it was the original shipment, not the replacement that was a day late at this point. He says I can keep the second shipment 'for my trouble'. Second shipment never arrives and no more replies to my inquiries. I know stuff happens out of a sellers control but 2 in a row?
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Old 08-10-2014, 01:09 PM
Farmall Jod Farmall Jod is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

check valve ISN'T sealing well.....

---------- Post added at 11:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

your problems with zkstuff must have been bad luck, as I haven't had any problems (packing on some items could have been better, I admit) other than a decal ruined during shipping (again, packaging could be blamed) but was replaced no questions asked
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Old 08-10-2014, 04:40 PM
ballfour ballfour is offline
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Default Re: International Harvester LA & LB Engines

Have used two different check valves on the LA with same result and one of them is a spring loaded check valve. Haven't had time to recheck all of the connections, but hope to this week.
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