Injector check valves

[Rick Strobel]

If I put a handvalve on top (steam in) and a handvalve on the bottom on each of our two injectors, would I still need two checkvalves, i.e. one per injector? I'll have a handvalve also coming out of the top of the boiler, plus another one at the bottom inlet for injected water.

Reason for two handvalves/injector is for maintainance purposes should it fail. (Actually there's three if one were to include feedwater shutoff)

TIA,
RickinMt.
PS: Think VFT stationary....thanks

[JMathews]

I have used two check valves in the bolier feed lines in the past with all sch 80 plumbing, after having the injectors recondtioned and working right I hade back pressure problems. I hade to remove the extra check valve for the water flow. If you use a good valve in the feed line at the bolier It is easy to repair a leeky check.

[AndyG]

Sounds like you have 2 injectors running through a "T" and feeding into the boiler via a common pipe. One check in the common pipe will be sufficient but I think that a seperate check for each injector will be better. There needs to be a hand valve in the common pipe.

[Rick Strobel]

Originally Posted by AndyG

Sounds like you have 2 injectors running through a "T" and feeding into the boiler via a common pipe. One check in the common pipe will be sufficient but I think that a seperate check for each injector will be better. There needs to be a hand valve in the common pipe.

Yes Andy...you draw the correct picture. I'll post a picture for critique asap.

Regards,
Rick

[ChadYelland]

We have a main shut off valve in the steam line at the boiler then a (regulating) globe valve on top of each injector (must have), one globe valve on each of the water suction lines near the injector (must have), If the injectors feed in a common line then each shall have a check placed at its outlet. We use a good angled globe valve at the boiler and a single check near to it. we have had nearly no troubles with the valves or checks, most of the trouble comes with worn injectors and the ppl that operate them. we have tons of injector bodys and parts is there a place that repairs them for a reasonable % of the cost of a new one, replacement parts up here are "most" the cost of a new injector....

[Kelly Anderson]

Originally Posted by AndyG

Sounds like you have 2 injectors running through a "T" and feeding into the boiler via a common pipe. One check in the common pipe will be sufficient but I think that a seperate check for each injector will be better. There needs to be a hand valve in the common pipe.

One check in the common pipe would allow delived water from one injector to drain out on the ground through the overflow of the other injector. Each injector must have one check valve, two checks per injector is better.

[Brad Kelley]

If you have 2 injectors running into a T, won't that cause problems with both injector's operation, in a sense that it restricts the flow of the injected water?

We've always had trouble with the injector on our small VFT. We have a 90* elbow in the feedwater pipe near the outlet of the injector (double tube) and we believe the sharp turn is causing us trouble by slowing the water down. I don't recall that our injector has ever worked properly, we've always fed the boiler through a hand pump.

[Brian Manning]

Rick, another little tidbit for you when you are piping in your feed water lines. Make sure that ALL THE VALVES you install are pointing the right way according to the arrow that is cast onto them. We had a problem with the injectors on "Big Nick" 98hp 2cyl simple, this fall while plowing [12 btm jd] got to the end of the field and turning around to make the return and they wouldn't hook up. No matter what we did no go, sooooooo.....after we pulled the fire, pulled the bonnets off each check and valve and flushed out the lines, we found that years ago when the piping was installed, the last stop valve before the boiler had been installed backwards, you could not see the arrow because it was against the side of the boiler, the disc had come off the valve stem and the steam pressure had forced the disc onto the seat-in industry we call this a fail-safe, on steamers we call this APITA I have heard of a 75 Case where the same thing happened a couple of years ago.

[Kelly Anderson]

Originally Posted by Brian Manning

Rick, another little tidbit for you when you are piping in your feed water lines. Make sure that ALL THE VALVES you install are pointing the right way according to the arrow that is cast onto them. We had a problem with the injectors on "Big Nick" 98hp 2cyl simple, this fall while plowing [12 btm jd] got to the end of the field and turning around to make the return and they wouldn't hook up. No matter what we did no go, sooooooo.....after we pulled the fire, pulled the bonnets off each check and valve and flushed out the lines, we found that years ago when the piping was installed, the last stop valve before the boiler had been installed backwards, you could not see the arrow because it was against the side of the boiler, the disc had come off the valve stem and the steam pressure had forced the disc onto the seat-in industry we call this a fail-safe, on steamers we call this APITA I have heard of a 75 Case where the same thing happened a couple of years ago.

One school of thought is that the valve closest to the boiler is to be the shut off, and it is to be positioned to shut off boiler water flowing back to the check valves. In that case, its arrow would be backward, compared to the rest.

We've always had trouble with the injector on our small VFT. We have a 90* elbow in the feedwater pipe near the outlet of the injector (double tube) and we believe the sharp turn is causing us trouble by slowing the water down. I don't recall that our injector has ever worked properly, we've always fed the boiler through a hand pump.

Smaller Penberthy's have a flaw in that the injector can be assembled with the delivery nozzle eccentric to the other nozzles. When that happens, it will not work. If you have the steam nozzle out, and look down through the combining tube, the delivery nozzle should appear concentric. If it isn't, loosen the bottom cap and jiggle the injector around until it comes into line.

[AndyG]

Originally Posted by Kelly Anderson

One check in the common pipe would allow delived water from one injector to drain out on the ground through the overflow of the other injector. Each injector must have one check valve, two checks per injector is better.

I stand corrected. You must have a seperate check for each injector. Brad Kelly is also right. I doubt that you will have much luck running 2 injectors into a common pipe simultaneously. It might work ok though.

[Rick Strobel]

Ok.thanks guys!!!
Hopefully this will clear up our intention.

The discharge on each injector will have a hand/stop valve immediately below it (hand valve will screw onto tail pipe).

When using one injector, the other injectors hand valves (3) will be shut.

Bottom line..one injector stops functioning, turn off the 3 applicable handvalves and remove injector. Run boiler with the remaining good injector.
We would possibly shut the boiler down and stay in the envelope.

I have no problem using two checkvalves,,,just that one new one seeps air on "the check." I've never returned stuff from McMaster.

Flash!! just received half inch tail pipe and nut from H.I. Stark in Indianapolis. This man knows his stuff!!!. We are good to go now.

Take Care,
RickinMt.
PS: two checkvalves with associated piping may also strengthen manifold.
PPS: Just one of my bazillion questions
PPPS: Mr. Stark makes it very clear to have stuffing/valve stem packing in VERY GOOD SHAPE. Vacuum leaks are not allowed.

[ChadYelland]

this is the only unit we have that 2 feeds into one line, this is how it was done originaly even though there are 2 boiler connections,, the injector is hidden by the canopy support -- Strange idea but i guess they wanted the pumped water heated as best they could so the line re-divides and feeds into both feedwater heaters, we have had some feeding issues with this set up and may install 2 injectors with or without the pump, we wanted the pump for authenticity,,,, but safety is better and they gotta work! I have never seen an engine but maybe a portable with just one boiler connection,,,, thats new to me. At least on this Geiser there are two feed water heater and two boiler connections if one should give trouble it can be shut off and all the water delivered to one side only.

[20 Reeves Highwheeler]

Originally Posted by Rick Strobel

Ok.thanks guys!!!
Flash!! just received half inch tail pipe and nut from H.I. Stark in Indianapolis. This man knows his stuff!!!. We are good to go now.
Take Care,
RickinMt.
PS: Mr. Stark makes it very clear to have stuffing/valve stem packing in VERY GOOD SHAPE. Vacuum leaks are not allowed.

Rick,
Mr. Stark is so correct about that. I've seen more injectors that wouldn't pick up because of air passing past the packing of the water regulating valve. I've seen a union that wasn't straight and leaked, piping that leaked and a hose that was allowing air by. Injectors don't like that. They want perfect suction and water.
Gary

[Leo Bard]

Most above posts are describing safe, operable designs. Here's a little something FYI. I have been running two injectors, each with it's own check on the boiler feed side, both running into a common boiler feed line, that also with it's own check, and a valve at the boiler. Valves at the boiler, both at the steam feed line for injectors, and the boiler feed line for make-up water allow you to isolate the boiler no matter where you might spring a leak.

My water pick up line at the water tank starts as a single line then splits into two lines, each feeding an injector, and each with a regulating valve.

I have never had any problems with the boiler feed side nor with the water pickup side when running either or both injectors simultaneously.

There is no trick to starting the injectors at the same time, you can start one and then the other, or both at the same time .

The only problem I have ever had is when some wag shuts off the valve in the boiler feed line at the boiler, which then causes the injector to hammer so hard and loud, that you know instantly what is wrong.


Leo

[Rick Strobel]

Threw this together today so maybe a clearer understanding will be seen. After doing this, I realized that going with two checks will probably be easier.

Hard to see, but on the bottom is a shutoff valve and check.

Thanks for looking and the thread!!

RickinMt.

[ChadYelland]

Hey rick, neat tank lol, 2 checks isnt really nessisary as long as you remember to shut the oposite injectors valve,,, finding a check for that vertical pipe that will work for flow going down might be interesting,, may have to do some monkeying best of luck

[Rick Strobel]

Thanks again guys!!! Thought I'd hit this thread one more time.

The injector/feedwater manifold will have two handvalves just outside the boiler and also unions so complete manifold assy. can be removed. With handvalves turned off, I can isolate the manifold, pressurize and fix seep's. (Note: Helicopters and boilers don't leak...they just seep a little ) Randy can relate to that, huh pard?

Two checkvalves will be used and will be as close to the boiler as possible and as far away from the injectors as feasible. This was recommended to me as that setup will have a tendency to keep the heat away from the injectors. I'll come down with the lower vertial pipe..do a 90 and then install the checkvalves.

I'll also install a "T" and handvalve in the steam line for blower operation. Have a very kewl brass shower head that may double for a nozzle.....should be fun to play with.

Stop/Hand valves , on ours, do not have the arrow, but visual inspection reveals the proper installation...wonder how the two valves below the injectors should be oriented

Well enough fer now...I don't mean to blabber...just get on a roll occastionally.

Take Care,
RickinMt.

[BDMelon]

Originally Posted by Rick Strobel

Thanks again guys!!! Thought I'd hit this thread one more time.

The injector/feedwater manifold will have two handvalves just outside the boiler and also unions so complete manifold assy. can be removed. With handvalves turned off, I can isolate the manifold, pressurize and fix seep's. (Note: Helicopters and boilers don't leak...they just seep a little ) Randy can relate to that, huh pard?

Two checkvalves will be used and will be as close to the boiler as possible and as far away from the injectors as feasible. This was recommended to me as that setup will have a tendency to keep the heat away from the injectors. I'll come down with the lower vertial pipe..do a 90 and then install the checkvalves.

I'll also install a "T" and handvalve in the steam line for blower operation. Have a very kewl brass shower head that may double for a nozzle.....should be fun to play with.

Stop/Hand valves , on ours, do not have the arrow, but visual inspection reveals the proper installation...wonder how the two valves below the injectors should be oriented

Well enough fer now...I don't mean to blabber...just get on a roll occastionally.

Take Care,
RickinMt.

Rick its better you blabber on , & find out things, then get hurt,,THEN ASK QUESTIONS!!!!! after the fact: Brian

[JMathews]

If you use a 1/4 turn ball valve between the injector and the bolier it wll work eather way.

[20 Reeves Highwheeler]

Originally Posted by Rick Strobel

Thanks again guys!!! Thought I'd hit this thread one more time.
(Note: Helicopters and boilers don't leak...they just seep a little ) Randy can relate to that, huh pard?
Take Care,
RickinMt.

Rick,
You could include Model Ts? You ought to see the huge NAPA "cookie sheets" under mine! Randy can also attest to that.
Gary