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How To Wire A Starter/Generator?


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  #1  
Old 01-14-2007, 02:08 PM
Todd W. White Todd W. White is offline
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Default How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

Hello guys!

I am trying to retrofit an L/C-series Gravely with a starter/generator and am having a problem: it starts but doesn't seem to charge.

Here's my situation:

1. The S/G is installed on the tractor.
2. It is wired according to the diagram located here:

http://www.chamberstoves.net/Wiring_Dwg_Rev_3.TIF

3. I used several different wiring diagrams, primarily from Cub Cadet's (mostly the Model 100) to arrive at this diagram. The above is not a replication of an actual Gravely drawing. Please note that the two contacts on the switch that are not connected are for operating the lights, but, since they are not installed yet, I left off the wiring for them, so as to simplify the drawing. Also, I forgot to add that the case of the V/R is grounded.
4. After hooking it all up, here's what happened:

A. The starter side seems to work fine. I was able to crank the engine and get it to start.
B. Before I checked the charging side, I decided to see if it would shut off when I turned the key to OFF. Therefore, I do not know if it charged or not.
C. When I turned the key to the OFF position, the engine continued to turn over, but at a slower rate.
D. I turned the key back on, and the engine fired up.
E. I turned it off again, and the engine continued to turn.
F. I removed the spark plug wire, thinking it was running somehow. No change - it kept turning over.
G. I removed the battery cable from the positive terminal of the battery. The engine stopped turning.
H. I let the thing set for a few minutes and started it again. No problems with the starting side.
I. Turned the key to OFF. The engine stopped this time - it did not keep turning over at all.
J. There was never any smoke, wire heating, or heating up of the S/G itself.
K. Now, it will start, but the voltage reading at the battery is 12 VDC. Voltage measurements from ground to the "A" or "F" terminals is 0.

5. I suspect I've wired it wrong somehow, even though I don't know how. Initially, I suspected I should have switched the connection between the battery "+" terminal and the "B" terminal on the V/R, but the CubCadet wiring shows nothing of the sort, so I just don't know.

Suggestions?

THANKS again!

- Todd
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  #2  
Old 01-19-2007, 07:31 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is online now
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Question Re: How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

Couple of items to check - 1) is the regulater working properly? 2) does your switch kill ignition only? Is the engine magneto fired, or battery and coil?
It sounds like you are getting battery voltage to the armature full time, after start up. There are usually 2 reasons for this - 1) the relay points are welded, not dis-engaging the starter, and 2) your kill/start switch is not wired to the circutry properly. To further check it out, we need to see the diagram. thanks,
Andrew
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Old 01-19-2007, 07:47 PM
Todd W. White Todd W. White is offline
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Default Re: How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

I'm not sure if the regulator is working properly, but I did measure the raw output of the S/G per Delco-Remy's Service bulletin for that model, and it's not generating.

This is a magneto-fired engine, and the key switches off the magneto only at this time.

I have a picture of the wiring diagram, but I'm not sure how to post it here.

- Todd
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  #4  
Old 01-30-2007, 08:08 PM
Todd W. White Todd W. White is offline
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Default Re: How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

Well, I got it fixed - HOORAY!

Here's what happened:

1. The starter solenoid was of the momentary type. I found out - the hard way - that it needs to be of the "continuous duty" type. Seems the Gravely L/C engine doesn't have compression relief, so it takes a lot of current to drive the S-G so it can turn the engine. Actually, it turns it really well, but the contacts on the Chinese-made SS's just can't handle much use - you just can't crank it much when trying to start it, else they will weld themselves together, and this is what mine did.

2. When the SS got stuck in "ON" mode, it started the starter side of the S-G to start "motoring."

3. Without any way to detect this, the two halves of the S-G fought one another, ultimately ruining both and destroying the VR.

4. The S-G salesmen sent me a new S-G under warranty, even though I told them all about what happened. NICE GUYS!

5. I replaced the VR, the S-G, wired it all up (except for the SS - I'm waiting on a marine-grade, continuous duty model to arrive, polorized the VR, and fired it up.

6. It works PERFECTLY! 12.8 VDC charging at idle, and 14.2 VDC at 75% throttle!

Lessons learned:

1. Always use a continuous duty, high-quality starter solenoid.

2. Always polorize the Voltage Regulator whenever it is installed in a system or reconnected to a system.

3. Install some way to SEE that the starter solenoid is operating. I'm using an amber (12-volt) light bulb on the output side of the SS, so I can SEE when power is flowing through it.

4. Install a way to SEE that the generator is operating (see method described above).

Thanks!

- Todd
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:45 AM
MrPhunn MrPhunn is offline
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Default Re: How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

Hi,
How do I polarize the Voltage reg once i take it off line and bring it back? Darnit, I should have remembered from my old days with 60's vintage plyms and fords, but i forgot. I am getting 10-11 Volts from my Delco version St/gen to a three point Voltage regulator. Maybe if i Polarized the VR?
Thanks
Jim
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Old 11-07-2009, 11:59 AM
Lead Head Lead Head is online now
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Default Re: How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

You don't polarize a regulator - you polarize the generator. It is often said you polarize a regular because the actual polarizing is often done at the regulator.

If your generator is being used in a starter/generator configuration, then once you hit "start" and have it turn over the engine, it automatically gets polarized.

You have a regulator issue, you'll probably want to remove the cover and clean the points, and perhaps even adjust the point gap screws with a voltage meter hooked up and engine running to see if you can get it to start outputting power.
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Old 11-08-2009, 01:09 AM
MrPhunn MrPhunn is offline
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Default Re: How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

Thanks for the tip. So, if it's not outputting the correct amount, to increase output do I close the points or open them?...this is gonna be some kinda contortion act to do it while running
Thanks
Jim (MrPhunn)
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:28 AM
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Dale Barnett Dale Barnett is offline
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Default Re: How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

This web sight has 3 diff diag for the wiring.

http://www.tpub.com/content/recovery...01-14P_200.htm

Hope this helps..
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Old 11-09-2009, 08:17 PM
Lead Head Lead Head is online now
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Default Re: How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPhunn View Post
Thanks for the tip. So, if it's not outputting the correct amount, to increase output do I close the points or open them?...this is gonna be some kinda contortion act to do it while running
Thanks
Jim (MrPhunn)
I can't remember off hand which way you have to turn the screws. Sorry.

Also, if that doesn't fix your issue, then perhaps something inside the Starter-Generator itself has gone south.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:39 PM
Carl A. Helsing Carl A. Helsing is offline
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Default Re: How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

Back in 1965--66 I was doing some small engine repair at home,as a part-time business.A customer brought an Allis-Chalmers garden tractor in for an engine rebuild.I completed that including rebore,valve's,etc.All mechanical's were fine.--My mistake occured with the motor generator.---He wanted a new one installed,and so I did.
As I remeber the instruction's which came with the new motor-generator and regulator,to polarize the "generator" field coil's,a jumper wire was to be run ,from terminal "B" to terminal "F" at the regulator,(battery to field)specifying "only a momentary" contact was to be made.Holding the wire in place for an extended time could cause problem's in the function of polarizing.
In any case,I did that correctly,whatever the connection's.What I did wrong was that I was not sure the impulse had completed the polarization,so I did the same thing a second time.Later,as the tractor was being used by the customer,the electrical system burned up.
Very sensitive type of new installation.(check the instruction's that come with a new motor-generator of the type carefully for correct polarization method--I may be errant now in recalling the exact terminal usage.)
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:25 PM
dab18351 dab18351 is offline
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Default Re: How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

Do all S-G started engines use a solenoid? I have a 1970 Sears Custom 10xl and it just has an S-G and a VR. That is the factory set up. Does it need a solenoid? Does it make it start better with a solenoid installed or is it fine the way it is? Thanks

Dave
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:46 AM
Arlo Arlo is offline
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Default Re: How To Wire A Starter/Generator?

Reply to dab18351,

My '67 Sears Super 12 made the connection between the battery and the S-G with contacts in the ignition switch (IS) itself. A cost savings for Sears, however less than optimal configuration as demonstrated by the fact that my IS fried. Instead of replacing the IS with the OEM, I replaced the it with an IS with a terminal for a lead to a solenoid, and made the connection between the battery and the S-G via a solenoid. The new config has proven to be a simple, effective, and safe upgrade from the original wiring. IMHO, well worth the expense.
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