Horse drawn hearse?

[rambill]

I just recieved a project for a customer in the wood shop, restoring an 1800 vintage horse drawn hearse. it has a sleigh for winter and wheels for the summer. You just set the body ( of the herse lol) on whichever you need. anyone ever seen one? may have to fake in a couple of parts. LOL USE THE OLE ARTISTIC LICENS E.

[rambill]

here she is. cool huh?

[George & Helen Myers]

A restaurant in Mifflinburg PA had several on display years ago. Sleigh and on wheels. Don't know what ever happened to them, maybe there are still there! I think there is a buggy museum in the town! As I remember they had beveled glass and a high black lacquer appearance.

We also attended an auction many years ago at the Space Farm Museum in northern Jersey where there were several sold!

Nice picture! Helen

[maryjane30]

nice looking herse, wonder what needs to be done to it?
is it to be resored to parade, or "working condition" or just for static display? the wheels and undercarraige seem to look reasonable enough, are there parts to be replaced, is there dry rot or any decay in any of the timber?

I am always interested in horse drawn vehicles, I worked with some professionally, and still have good friends who offer a horse drawn funeral service here in Australia. maybe I could help if you send some pics of what might be missing? here in australia, all the herse and funeral vehicles I've seen are finnished in Black japan, I wonder if the finish on this one is original?

Ill look out some working drawings of similar english and american and colonial vehicles, maybe they will help. keep in touch, i'd love to help.

regards, Mary-Jane

[candersen]

i have seen one very much like it, fully restored. It is located at a funeral home in plaquemine louisiana.

[candersen]

the name of the funeral home is Wilbert funeral home inc. I have more contact info if you need it. email me at mncandersen@hotmail.com

[rambill]

im rebuilding her from scratch. the pic is what it should look like when im done, except this one was red rolling gear with a black hearse body. all i have is the hardware and some wood pieces for refrence.

[maryjane30]

goodness me!!!


ull need some drawings then, maybe if u PM me or contact me off list, i could email something.. nice project tho.

I wonder what ur iron work is, what type of wheels ull use?

more to follow..

MJ

[maryjane30]

just had to run for lunch, so I hope no one minds if I post again..

can I put some thoughts down here?

firstly, cut out the window behind the driver, put some plywood in there..its a rotten one to keep clean, and it makes the driver edgy, being able to see the coffin..

I guess if you start at the chassis bearers, and get them all lined up on the gear.

might be good to look at the house reproduction places, and get some idea what style of mantle carvings you can find, before you determine the actual height of the box.. they would be an easy way to add trim up the corners, maybe..especially if you intend to japan the box.

I wonder about wheels, they'll be the most expensive bit, I guess it has roller bearing hubs anyway, I would seriously think about fitting steel repro wheels, they look good, and dont come loose/break tyres with season changes. these can be made to fit standard trailer bits and pieces.. easy and look good.

would love to see some pics of your undercarriage, steering gear etc, please..?

the one in the picture seems pretty simple, most I've seen are great scary gothic masterpieces, no wonder the kids ran and hid under the bed when the funeral procession went by!

wonder what horses the client has to drag it around? guess that would determine how strong the timbers need to be, in the pole, chassis bearers etc.. If he /she has 4 big black arabs with full scotch harness, then they want to be pretty solid. a pair of little buggy horses might need a lighter vehicle altogether.

as for hardware, are there ostrich feather sockets, flower baskets, etc with it? would be fun to see a picture of them too..

what about sleigh runners? would they have to be steam bent, or laminated? is there 2 or 4 runners?

if you make the seat on top too wide(for an extra coachman), you'll maybe need to put another leaf in the springs.. you want the vehicle to be a little lower on the front, to look good in procession, but not too saggy, or dragging its tail.

I wonder about springs? are you going to get the existing ones reset? or just add new leaves, or are they ok? I guess they are fully eliptical, do they have shackles on each end, or mated together like a knuckle?

I guess I've asked a lot of questions here.. hope thats ok, dont really expect an answer, just very interested in a project like this..

some things to think about anyway..

best, M-J

[rambill]

the wheels are standard buggy wheels as far as I can tell. (not that id know the difference)it has 4 skis. one looks like it was laminated, the rest are bent as if steamed. my guess is that someone redid the one ski. also im not convinced that the ski package mounting frame is origional. pics are comming. I dug out a bunch of nice oak yesterday, stacked it and cut it to length. gotta clean up the big 5hp tablesaw so i can rip the 8/4 into the running gear. there is some real creftsmanship there. i figgure ill be about two weeks just doing the ski package setup. there was nothing on any of it for the horses, and im not much of a horse hitcher. lol will have o call in the xperts on that one. The box was killed in a roof collapse about 20 yrs ago and is there but its a mess.
i have a pretty good idea what it was though. I am sure ill run ito unknowns on this one though. I built a truck cab once but the buggy is a new one.

[rambill]

the sleigh doesent hve springs but the wheeled part does. thier the double ones, one inverted over the other. yup. its like that.

[maryjane30]

BTW, dont forget to go measure a coffin.. they have got bigger over the years, and is embarrassing to build a hearse and discover you cant get the doors shut!

[John Hanson]

Rambill, they aren't that uncommon. You can still get brand new ones if you want to pay the $$. There are a few around my area, and I'd be glad to pass anything on to you that I can. The wheels aren't going to be a big deal at all.... there are many wheelwrights in the country, and some not far from you. Those in the picture appear to be original style grease bearings, and I'd just stick with that, in the light of no further the hearse will most likely ever travel. The springs shouldn't be much of a problem as well... for the most part, these hearses didn't see much use, and never with much of a load, so they seldom need much attention in that department. This one is pretty lightly built, but still shouldn't be any big deal.
Traditionally, hearses were pulled with a 4up of black, lightweight horses (less than 1500# each), but some were very ornate and heavy and were pulled with larger horses.
Like I said, just shoot me a PM, and I'd be glad to help with any of the unknowns that I can.
John

[HBurk]

rambill,
I get the feeling that this isn't the first thing of this nature that you've done.

[rambill]

I get some wierd wood projects. made an Ark/ cradle a while back. Made a cab for a Napoleon truck once, its at the Buckley show. Only one in existance.

anyone ever seen one that you can put either on a sleigh or the carriage? no one here has.
anyone measure any caskets lately?

[Buster]

I do not know what you are starting with . But it is very nice to find clues as to the date and name of company that built it . If any of the wood around the seat area is there . like under seat or around seat frame you may find some numbers . alot of times these numbers are branded in the wood. and will tell the year built . Talk more later Buster

[rambill]

I will contact yall as i run ito the inevatable issues accompanying this kind of project. today i ripped the lumber to width, and tomorrow is planer day. i pulled put exactly enough wood from the barn to build the frames, ect. for the sleigh and the cariage. couldent do that again on a bet. lol
gonna have to fab a few u bolts with square tops, and two other small parts, otherwise it seems i have all the origional hardware for both chassis. the hearse will be another matter. one thing i cant see from the origional hearse is how they built the back door (s)? i HAVE SOME TIME TO DO RESEARCH ON IT, AS i am doing both undercarriages first. I did ck for the common sizes of caskets, thanks for the tip on that one. std is 82" long, 27" hwide, by 14" h to the hinge and the top is 8 " more with a 19" radius. havent found the data on bigger caskets. also, i wonder if they had runners on the floor for the casket to slide on. i have a design in my head that includes some that will double as a floor strengthining member.
you all have been a great help on this one and i appreciat your comments. keep em comming, and i will keep you all updated if you would like.

[John Hanson]

I haven't seen any hearses that had runners, but the 4 runner system that replaces the wheels isn't that uncommon on some light wagon designs. I'll take a look in a few resources that I have here tonight.
JH

[Franz©]

Nice pics & information
http://www.buggy.com/hearse.html

http://www.horsedrawnfunerals.com/

http://www.coyaltix.com/renovation.html

Spring Hill chapel of H.M. Patterson & Son Co. in Atlanta Ga has one

http://www.funeralmuseum.org/museumonline3.html

http://pets.webshots.com/album/79805779avMgiC

http://www.cowboy.com/index.php?nav=view&lid=13983

http://www.mantonmichigan.org/community_history.php

[kendall c]

There is an old horse drawn herse at a museum in my home town, an old friend of my family donated it to the museum. Then a few years ago when he passed away he wanted to be hauled to the cemetary in it by his own horses, but the modern day casket was way to big to fit in it so he had to go in a bigger horse drawn wagon that he had built himself. The museum is only open during the summer, if I get a chance and can remember, I might try to get some pictures of it this summer and send them along.