What will we do?

[Chris J]

What would happen to all our antuique engines and tractors and vehicals if the world ran out of petroleum and natural gas? Cars and trucks and modern tractors could be easily converted over, since they still make them, but what about all our old engines and our old tractors and our old vehicals? What would we run them on or will they just sit and collect dust in 100 years from now and or be scraped out? All these motors that we collect wont be able to run or show off if there is no gass or petroleum.
Any ideas or opinions, because its going to happen sooner or later and at this rate will how many people there are, we need to think about these things so we can keep these motors going for another 100 or more years, Keep the History Alive!! This is our problem

[Larry Carlston]

Most of our engines will be used for the government's scrap metal drive in order to support WW III.
I have an old Briggs disassembled and buried in coffee cans in my back yard just in case.

[kerogas]

Me , I will be decomposing . But if I were in that position , I would set up a still and open up the mixer another turn or two . More than likely lubrication and nosey neighbors calling the fuzz on you is what will put the kink in your hose .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeZk3W1GrGc

" My uncle has a country place , that no one knows about . He says it used to be a farm before the Motor Law "

" .... down on his farm , my uncle preserved for me an old machine , for 50 odd years . To keep it as new had been his dearest dream "

[Tanner Remillard]

Good question, I've often thought the same thing. Not only on fuel, but the thousands of other things that come from petroleum. Plastics, fuel, grease, lubricating oil, and a million other things all have petroleum in them. THEN what??? Every modern day machine needs to be greased and oiled to run efficiently, without petroleum, there going to have to figure something out.

[Fred Van Hook]

One oil company is admitting there is a oil shortage and that Peak Oil is going to happen some time this year. That's when half the worlds total supply will be depleted and there is no end in sight for rising demand.

http://www.willyoujoinus.com/


Thanks for listening. Fred

[PaulGray]

Just type in "peak oil" in google. We are probably at peak or just past it. The Mexican fields are in steep decline, the Saudi Fields and Dubai are close. The problem is that the rate of new discoveries to meet an ever-increasing demand is falling. Costing more and more to find new fields... drill deeper. Biggest easy to get at new reserves are in SW Iraq... Saddam did not need them at the time... I wonder who does. As China and other third-world economies grow, they will be looking for a bigger piece of the limited crude pie. Ethanol is a temporary fix, biodiesel hybrid has the best energy out versus energy in for transportation- better if it is a plug-in. There is a neat DVD called "The End of Suburbia" which came out of Canada which is worth a watch. Try a site called the oil drum also. The media is keeping their heads in the sand (or elsewhere) reporting on this one... au contrare... it undermines the whole mall/suburban existance which is full of commercials for crap I care fly-speck about. That said, I give it 3-5 years and the situation will have a real impact on the present "normal life"- Look at the numbers... exponential growth of population, stagnant growth in oil production.

[Chris J]

Originally Posted by kerogas

" My uncle has a country place , that no one knows about . He says it used to be a farm before the Motor Law "
" .... down on his farm , my uncle preserved for me an old machine , for 50 odd years . To keep it as new had been his dearest dream "

What does he mean by the "motor law" and what is that old machine? Ive lisned to rush before but not this song though.

[Patrick McNallen]

The world isn't going to run out of petroleum and natural gas anytime soon. It's my opinion that other forms of energy will eclipse petroleum-based fuels long before any real supply shortage develops. It won't be corn methanol, either. Various experts, scientists, oilmen, and sundry other crackpots have been predicting a malthusian disaster caused by running out of oil and other resources, including food, since the very early years of the last century and longer. They have always been comically wrong, and I expect that they will continue to be. One thing is certain beyond any doubt: so long as Albert Gore, Junior, continues to fly around this planet like an avenging angel of doom upon a 750,000-pound magic carpet of blazing petroleum, we will damned sure never run out of certain superheated gases.

[Sky]

as long as there's a piston engine there will always be fuel. and i dont think the piston engine will be dying anytime soon. rather the fuel be from plants...trash...or what ever they come up with...if it's combustable enough to run an engine, and if the fuel is ment for a piston engine...there will always be fuel...man kind can be awfully doggon smart when he want's to be...specially when he's in a bind.

[PaulGray]

No... we are not going to run out anytime soon. BUT- think about this whole "global economy" thing... it is predicated on being able to ship goods around the world very cheaply. Large container ships use the economy of scale to do this today. Wally-mart and others have done this successfully in spades. Look at the proliferation of overnight freight which depends on cheap fuel to fly. If the demand continues to escalate, and prices of crude hit say $150/bbl, a lot of this current mindset for shipping goods and people will change and you may see a shift back to more local economies. Think about how it was even 50 years ago when it was a luxury to get something from overseas. Now you can get a 40 lb bench vise from china for ~50 bucks; although I would not term a chinese bench vise a luxury!. People have moved away from cities in droves over the last 40 years because of cheap transportation- ahhh suburbia. In CA, (I used to live there)many people could only afford homes which were ~1 hour away from work and burned up a lot of fuel getting back and forth. The end of cheap oil will put a REAL crimp on this lifestyle/mindset and this I see happening soon.

[Donald A Smith]

I HAVE NOTICED A BIG DIFFERENCE IN MY OWN DRIVEING HABITS I HAVE TO CUT DOWN ON MY IRON HUNTING WITH GASOLINE AT 3 BUCKS A GALLON BOY THIS REALLY SUCKS I AM ON A LIMITED BUDGET SO I GUESS I WILL SPEND MORE TIME IN THE ENGINE SHED MY DAD TOLD ME 30 YEARS AGO DONT WASTE GAS THERE WILL BE A DAY WHEN YOU WILL BE SORRY WELL AMERICA THAT DAY IS A COMEING AND THERE AINT A THING THE LITTLE MAN CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!!!!!! THIS WHOLE GAS THING PUTS MY SHORTS IN A BUNCH IBET THERE ARE OTHERS WHO FEEL LIKE I DO SPEAK UP I FEEL BETTER DON IN INDIANA

[Larry Carlston]

I guess our future generations will have to start collecting "old" nuclear generators.

[kerogas]

Originally Posted by Chris J

What does he mean by the "motor law" and what is that old machine? Ive lisned to rush before but not this song though.

It's a Ferrari . V12 - In red .Google up the 1950 166 series . The song is set in a totalitarian future after the IC engine has been banned . If they catch him in it , they are gonna kill him . If I had to sneak out through the concertina wire and past the beltfeds just to get a chance at driving it , it starts sounding like something worth dying for. Just look at the thing !
http://www.bmwe21.net/166.jpg

the short story
http://members.aol.com/redbarche/ANiceMorningDrive.html

[Bill Geyer]

There was a movie about that 20 some years ago, can't remember the name. Seems like Lee Majors was in it and the car was a Firebird.
The fuel thing is a hard call, we could be really suffering with starvation, riots etc. Or with new technology (invented by Al Gore), petroleum based products could become obsolete, and not in high demand like steam oil, or hard grease.

[Patrick McNallen]

I used to have a 1938 copy of Air Progress magazine in which the lead article was titled "500 Miles An Hour Can't Be Done!" The experts had studied the matter, you see, and they concluded that it simply wasn't possible, so there you go. About a hundred years prior to that, experts were sternly warning that no locomotive could ever achieve a speed of 35 miles per hour, and even if such an awful velocity were somehow to be achieved, everyone on board the thing would be killed by the terrific speed. I guess the steam guys were too busy working on their locomotives to listen to the experts.

[Gene Fisher]

Do any of you remember the gas lines in the late 70s early 80s? Our government said there was and oil shortage so we had long lines at the gas pumps and prices went up. Now over 25 years later we hear the same thing and how might i ask did we increase our consumption over 50% since then and still function? It is true even a gallon of milk or a head of lettuce requires and depends on oil not just our cars. When you listen to the news they" say it is the inviornmentalists" that are the problem" who in the he double toothpicks are they? Lets find out and send them where they do not use oil and they can eat coconuts on the beach and use their feet and a paddleboat to get around. There is more oil untouched than has ever been used. Global WARMING is true, it is warmer now than it was in the ice age and i am pleased, it is a lot easier to stay warm.

[Brad Kelley]

The world will not "run out" of petroleum, likely ever. We may stop using it eventually and therefore it becomes hard to get in quantities and grades for using in things like antique engines.

There was an article some time ago in Mechanical Engineering Magazine, www.memagazine.org, about how the US has the largest reserves of Shale Oil in the world. Trillions of barrels of oil locked in shale deposits underground, and once we come up with a process to recover it we won't be needing the middle east's oil ever again. The April 2007 issue of ME Magazine has a small blurb about a company's research to recover the shale oil. See the second story on this page:
http://www.memagazine.org/contents/c...echfocus1.html

Here's the info on Shale Oil from Wikipedia:

Oil shale is a general term applied to a fine-grained sedimentary rock containing enough organic material (called kerogen) to yield oil and combustible gas upon distillation. In addition to the oil shale, the other groups of organic-rich sedimentary rock are bitumen-impregnated rocks (tar sands and petroleum reservoir rocks), and humic coals and carbonaceous shale.
The United States Energy Information Administration estimates the world supply of oil shale at 2.6 trillion barrels of recoverable oil, 1.0-1.2 trillion barrels of which are in the United States.[1] However, attempts to develop these reserves have been going on for over 100 years with limited success.[2]
The kerogen in oil shale can be converted to oil through the chemical process of pyrolysis. Oil shale could also burn directly as a low-grade fuel for power generation and heating, and be used as a raw material in the chemical and construction materials industries. Estonia, Russia, Brazil, China, Australia, Israel and Germany currently mine oil shale.[3]

[KidDynamo]

Don't confuse any gas shortages with the environmental movement.

Any conspiratorial issues would have involved the oil industry.

Speaking to the thread at hand, one idea would be to learn to run your engines on propane and you'll be all set for converting to home brewed methane, particularly if you live around livestock.

See Mother Earth News number 1 through 12 and numerous other publications to learn how to home brew methane. They explained how to do this easily and cheaply, over 35 years ago.

I'm not suggesting this for a national gas guzzler fuel supply, but you could run collectable engines far into the future on what is derived from waste.

Of course, gas is still cheap right now so it is far easier to do nothing, as usual.

[CWC]

Originally Posted by Gene Fisher

Do any of you remember the gas lines in the late 70s early 80s? Our government said there was and oil shortage..... There is more oil untouched than has ever been used.

This is true, we just haven't figured out how to get it out of the ground yet, but we will eventually.
The "shortage" term is a scam to keep prices up. If there actually was a "shortage" you would not be able to buy fuel at any price, but the fact is I could have 20 tanker loads delivered to my house in the morning if I had enough money. Proof there is no shortage. So why is gas $3.00 a gallon? Because they can charge that much and we still keep buying it, thats why!

[Craig A]

Originally Posted by Brad Kelley

.......the US has the largest reserves of Shale Oil in the world.

Brad........the Canadians are WAY ahead of us (naturally............) on the oil shale thing...........

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...+mining+canada

But this report is even more significant...........SOMEDAY we'll be able to DO to the East as THEY have been doing to US.............. .............not SOON enough but kinda fun to think about.......

http://www.worldenergy.org/wec-geis/...hale/shale.asp