Diesels in 45 states ONLY !

[Peter]

I have been considering the unthinkable and squandering old-iron money on a new vehicle. A daily driver that i can also use for light towing, vacation and a little fun. I went to checkout the Jeep line and I like the new Wrangle 4dr Rubicon or a little more conservative choice might be the Liberty offroad pkg. last year, I read a road test comparison of diesel Liberty vs Honda suv hybrid. Amazingly the Jeep would practically equall the fuel ecenomy of the hybrid in a heavier vehicle with an enormous towing advantage and significant all around performance advantage. The latest generation diesels are very green. They should be acceptable to all the liberal tree huggers and global whatever cry babies. Since Jeep is part of Daimler Benz they have access to world class diesel technology. Great.

Ok, I am just lookin. Thinking jeep and thinking diesel. Now the SHOCK!

No diesels sold in Mass!! Aparently the Feds have some new regulation that kicks in 2009 and for some unbelievable stubid silly a$$ dumb reason 5 states decided to require those levels NOW! The effect is NO diesel light vehicle that I know about can be sold in Mass.

So now instead of a 30mpg diesel, am looking at buying a 20mpg gasoline Jeep! What kind of back-a$$-wards logic is this?

[Tanner Remillard]

Now THAT IS stupid. Deisels are far more efficient then any gas engine, you get more pulling power for the fuel that is being used compared to gas. to the government. Could'nt you just go across the border and buy one there?

[Eric M.]

What 5 states are they?

Talk about moronic decisions. I wonder what they have been smoking in washington lately...

[Elden DuRand]

Never - I say NEVER underestimate the stupidity and cupidity of Guvmint!


Another Diesel-vs-hybrid story. My Brother bought a new '07 Pirius (sp??) hybrid SUV, about the same size as our Jetta TDI Diesel wagon.

He gets about 35 mpg with his hybrid and we get -at least- 42 mpg and as high as 48 mpg without trying hard.

The politico-weenies are trying to shove ethanol down our throats when it takes about as much (or more) energy to make it as than it contains. Why not push for veggie oil for Diesels? Better mileage, it takes less energy to produce veggie than it makes and smells like french fries.

Now, don't get me started on hydrogen as fuel for cars!!!!!!

I'll now get off my soapbox and take a little nap.

Take care - Elden

[Peter]

The 5 states are: Mass, Kalifornia, New York, Vermont and Maine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/17/au...rssnyt&emc=rss

As far as buying out of state, I worry about putting down my cash and getting held up at the Registry (RMV). I was thinking 1/2 down and a 2yr loan. its too big a financial deal to risk any funny business.

What I might do is and wait for the 09 models? thats about 12 months out now. I also worry about 1st year bugs in new engine technology. Another factor is in 09, more diesel models should be available if Daimler and chrysler stay together. Meanwhile my 93 jeep is getting to be a maintaince headache. and

[Mike Monnier]

The diesel Liberty went away with the 07 EPA regulations anyhow. What about finding a gently used diesel Jeep?

[Peter]

Mike,

Interesting about the Liberty. I assumed that was still a Liberty option. The wranger is not an option yet. I thought dealer mentioned the cherokee was available (other states). Thats model has gone too fancy for me. another factor in waiting for the regulations to settle down in '09.

Used maybe..... I might start looking at local ads. Thanks,

[Eric M.]

Does this prohibit buying any diesel, new or used, or just new?

[peter witte]

Here we go again. I agree that some laws concerning motor vehicals are stupid. having been a long time Denver resident who remembers the brown cloud that hung over the town, I was pleased to see that they are the only city to be removed from the bad air list. This was done through gas and diesel emmissions testing and different fuel blending for the seasons.The local bus system was the biggest offender.Mercedes diesels for a long time were the only ones that could meet Californias strict emmissions standards. Been to Mexico City in the summer? This what and has happened without these standards. I really do not care if I am classified as a tree hugger. There is a time and place for everything! Wake up folks, we live in the 21st century. The days of carbs, points and condencers are long gone in the states, although still used in other parts of the world. Trust me when I say I love the old stuff! With todays fuels, the needle and seats,plastic floats tend to desinagrate with normal use. Electronic fuel injection and computer controls have relly hapled in many ways. My dads 68 olds did not get 30+mpg on the hiway and last for 300k miles if maintained. Enough of my soapbox!

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Eric M.

Does this prohibit buying any diesel, new or used, or just new?

AFAIK only applies to new smaller vehicles. Had no questions asked when I brought my new 2 me diesel truck back here to MA last year. And you can go to the Ford/GM stealerships in town and buy a brand new diesel pickup so seems those are ok to sell.

My buddy in RI had a diesel Liberty and loved it when the thing wasn't in the shop for bad ccv, egr valve, bad turbo ect....

[Bill Geyer]

At the engine show in Fredricksburg, TX, they have a JD garden tractor with a small air cooled Diesel. For the last 5 or 6 years they have been using Bio-Diesel. The exhaust smells awful nothing like french fries, and this is only one little engine in the whole grounds

[PFT]

I scanned this article from the Jan 2007 issue of OEM Off-Highway magazine, I hope you all can read it ok, should be able to if you can zoom in some. I thought it has good reasons we should be promoting diesels in our cars and small trucks too.
Even the tree huggers should like the reduced CO2 emissions.
Sorry, looks like it's going to be hard to read. Maybe somebody that's better with computers can make it better.

[Mike in NC]

Around here on some of the pumps, it says don't use in 2007 and newer model year engines. I don't know why that is. So what do you do if you have a 2007 model year engine?

[PFT]

Mike, the 2007 and newer engines are supposed to use ultra low sulfur fuel. The older engines need the extra sulfur to help lube the injection system. Those stations must still be using the old stuff for the people that are running the older vehicles.

PT

[Robert Haus]

Yes, diesels are the most efficient internal combustion engine yet devised...and the modern ones are often as clean or cleaner than their gasoline counterparts.

I remember seeing an ad for a new locomotive back around 1980 or so...it said that 5 gallons of #2 fuel oil would move one ton coast-to-coast...granted, you have to figure in the weight of the train...but it would be like driving a 4000lb car coast-to-coast on 10 gallons....AMAZING how much more efficient a steel wheel/steel rail train is compared to a car in traffic.

Unfortunately, it seems as if GM did more long term damage to the diesel's reputation than any other...remember those converted 350's in the Olds and Caddies?.....so do a lot of other people....those motors stank, ran poorly, made a lot of noise...and worst of all, they broke! The 6.2/6.5 liter engines were only marginally better...They sold a lot of them, lots of irritated customers who haven't forgotten out there. The Cummins in the Dodge is an excellent engine...and the 7.3 Powerstroke seems to be a good one too. (haven't heard much of the 6.0 Powerstroke or the new GM Duramax....nobody I know has one, but I suspect they are ok too.)

My 1-ton crew cab truck gets 20mpg on the highway...a friend of mine has the same model truck with the gas engine and only gets 8-10mpg.

The comment about the hybrid vs diesel does not surprise me at all....carrying those batteries is a weight penalty......and the Jetta TDI is a good car. (remember those diesel Rabbits? ...many of those are still running.)

I think I would wait until someone introduced a DIESEL-ELECTRIC hybrid...then I'd look into it.

rh

[Phillip Hutchinson]

I have the answer to all the probs here chaps ,go and fit a steam engine in ya present jeep, tell the pollies to go and play with them selves (maybe they are doing that now).
Just think, pull up on the side of the road grab ya chainsaw and "top up ya tank" and the best part no nasty fuel emmissions
But seriously this scenario you have noted here is bordering on sheer stupidity,out here in OZ all the manufaturers are going diesel,i have a m8 who is running his old coaster diesel bus on biodiesel he has about 500 litres of cooking oil in his shed,and if ya need some glyserene he has it by the 20 litre drum,when he goes past it smells like a mobile fish shop.
Regards Phillip

[MoRo]

On the GM conversion-diesels, you forgot one thing, they also leaked oil!!! They were J-U-N-K!!!!

[Motormowers]

I would wait until the new Liberty diesel comes out then buy it. The VM diesel in the first models really didnt get great mileage for a diesel although it was "supposed" to be a good engine. The next engine they will be using is a Renault diesel I believe, not the VM engine. I have been driving diesels the last 20 years and have to say they ARE the engine of the future, not gasoline/hybrids. Diesels are much more alternative fuel friendly than any gas engine out there. Im really not sure why no one has built a diesel/hybrid yet?? I agree the TDI is a great engine as I have a 2000 Golf but it could be better without that VNT turbo and if they used japanese electronics it would be that much better than crappy Bosch. As I write this I think I may have lost the turbo today on the way home from my parents, will tear into today and see what happend. If you want a bullet proof old diesel and dont care if it drives like the parking brake is on those old Benz diesels cant be beat, along with the Jap diesel trucks from the 80's. For a full size truck nothing comes close to the indestructable Cummins in a Dodge.

[Motormowers]

I also forgot to mention there is a great diesel website in the U.K called Dervhead.com

[John Schwiebert]

My nephew had some new Ford truck literature last week. I see with this new fuel system the maximym bio diesel percentage is now down to 5%.Also I see the 5000 psi oil pump is gone too so who makes this fuel system?