Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Articles] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Chat] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] - [Tools]

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Old Iron and Tractor Community > Antique Tractor Talk
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Tractor Talk Vintage farm tractors and mounted implements. Ford, John Deere, Oliver, McCormick and more.

Antique Tractor Talk

Unseizing an engine


this thread has 54 replies and has been viewed 43540 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-22-2007, 04:16 PM
sambear sambear is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dalmeny, SK, Canada
Posts: 26
Likes: 7
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Unseizing an engine

What is the best method to unseize an engine? I have tried diesel with motor oil, topped off with two weeks worth of daily doses of Lloyds 'Moovit' and that worked on an inline six 235.5cid GMC engine.

For a W-30 tractor, likely seized due to invasive moisture, would diesel be the best way to start? I think Lloyds 'Moovit' will do well, but what about SeaFoam 'Deep Creep' or automatic transmission fluid?

After that do I leave the tractor on a ramp, in high gear, and allow gravity to place pressure on all four cylinders?

Any success stories or suggestions would be most helpful.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 05-22-2007, 07:02 PM
Bill Geyer's Avatar
Bill Geyer Bill Geyer is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Granbury, Texas, USA
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 256
Liked 120 Times in 81 Posts
Images: 12
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

All of the above sounds good. You might also loosen the rocker arms, make an air adapter from an old spark plug so that you can leave a few psi of compressed air in first one cylinder and then another to help the oil penetrate. Maybe some other tips will come along.
__________________
May the Stak be with you
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-22-2007, 08:19 PM
Craig A's Avatar
Craig A Craig A is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wisconsin USA
Posts: 12,982
Likes: 11,288
Liked 14,930 Times in 4,574 Posts
Images: 18
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

I remain convinced that brake fluid is the way to go.
The air pressure thing works well and it takes ONLY a few pounds.
Give it time.......
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-22-2007, 10:45 PM
Mike McKnight Mike McKnight is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mason, Tennessee USA
Posts: 5,842
Likes: 5,900
Liked 5,335 Times in 1,991 Posts
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

Someone ain't gonna be happy with me posting this I'm sure, but....in my years of working on old seized engines, to me nothing works better than unhooking the con rod, taking a block of stove wood that fits fairly tightly in the cylinder bore, and wailing on the block of wood with a sledgehammer. (That's how we usually HAVE to unstick these rough ol' Southern tractors I'm used to working on!!!!!!) In the rare cases this hasn't worked, I've filled the bore with brake fluid and lit it off and let burn for awhile before pounding again. (Brake fluid burns good and slow.) I've seen you can soak forever sometimes with nothing doing 'til you use a little (or lot!) of brute force.

Good luck, and glad to hear you're opting to restore the family tractor!

Mike M
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-23-2007, 12:03 AM
Farquhar Farquhar is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mendota ,Va
Posts: 1,766
Likes: 962
Liked 870 Times in 331 Posts
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

Quote:
I've seen you can soak forever sometimes with nothing doing 'til you use a little (or lot!) of brute force.
If at first you don't succeed, just git a bigger hammer!!!!
My motto too, Steamdaddy.
I am going hafta do some soakin on the F/M dishpan though, got it all but the piston, the cylinder has got a "lil" too much rust to frail the piston out just yet.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-23-2007, 12:14 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is online now
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rockaway, New Jersey USA
Posts: 9,467
Likes: 1,208
Liked 3,901 Times in 2,520 Posts
Exclamation Re: Unseizing an engine

i used to make my own 'bust it loose solution = 1 cup gasoline, 1 cup kero (or substitute #1 fuel oil), 1 cup type F trans fluid, and 1 cup -Liquid wrench. Mix thoroughly with a wood spoon, and pour in top of the cylinder, and let sit. You can pressurize with air, if the cylinder is closed, if it isn't, seal it off. KEEP AWAY FROM ANY IGNITION SOURCE. VERY FLAMMABLE/EXPLOSIVE

DO NOT try to break it loose by towing and dropping the clutch You may end up busting the rods, and possibly bending the crank. One of the guys bought a parts tractor, last year, that he was told was lightly stuck. He tried this very thing, with a friend towing the old ford with a JD. When he popped the clutch, several things happened in a hurry. First a loud CRACK was heard, followed by several ominus crunching noises that sounded a death knell for the 4 banger. Next, the ford slammed to a stop, throwing the driver against the steering wheel, with a lot of force, As all this nonsence was going on, the JD was trying to stand on it's head. Thankfully, the JD driver somehow managed to ease off on the clutch, allowing every thing to come to rest gently. The damage, you ask? 3 busted rods (the one bent at a right angle, busted out the cylinder, the water jacket, and made a mess out of everything!), broken cam, Twisted crank shaft, and a crank bearing busted out of the block
Andrew
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-23-2007, 11:41 AM
CaptainJohn CaptainJohn is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hesperia, Michigan USA
Posts: 212
Likes: 32
Liked 35 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

I use liquid wrench. Tapping on engine to set up a viabration helps too. It may take several days. But all of a sudden it will free up. good luck with it. Capt,n
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-23-2007, 11:51 AM
sambear sambear is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dalmeny, SK, Canada
Posts: 26
Likes: 7
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

Cap:

Do you add Liquid Wrench daily or just spray it in once?

By "vibrating the engine", to what procedure where you referring? Do you mean rocking the tractor or tapping each piston?


I have dumped diesel into each cylinder, sprayed 'Deep Creep' and poured a cup of automatic transmission fluid via the spark plug holes. Do I need to have each cylinder consistently topped up?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-23-2007, 01:16 PM
FWurth's Avatar
FWurth FWurth is offline
One Millionth Post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Freeburg, Illinois USA
Posts: 3,018
Likes: 4,244
Liked 2,473 Times in 1,270 Posts
Images: 4
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

When my father and I are working on an engine with stuck pistons, we usually take the heads off and clean the cylinders up first. This allows us to inspect the condition of the liners, makes it a little easier to turn (inevitably when one cylinder is going down another is coming up) and prevents any further damage which could occur due to trapped debris. Otherwise we use regular ag diesel with a little not so friendly persuasion . If that doesn't work we light the diesel, let cool and try the persuation again.

We do have an engine which we will not be able to follow these processes. We have a four cylinder engine which does not use heads. Instead it is a blind bore. To make maters more interesting, the only openings in the head end are over the valves, meaning we cannot even see the top of the piston. Any suggestions?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-23-2007, 03:00 PM
Patrick McNallen Patrick McNallen is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,250
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Talking Re: Unseizing an engine

You might try a pressure washer on that headless engine. If you can get the wand tip into a spark plug hole or valve access hole, it will blast out most anything loose. Then you can inventory the rust, bugs, carbon, and other debris from the cylinders after you get it out of your eyes.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-23-2007, 04:02 PM
sambear sambear is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dalmeny, SK, Canada
Posts: 26
Likes: 7
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

Seems like a lot of effort (and trust) is placed in a slow burn and persuasion. I am feeling anxious about setting any combustible material alight, especially given this tractor rests in a open area of a bluff.

Persuasion, this must come after the rods are disconnected from the crankshaft(?).

No tugging by another vehicle while in gear, I agree.

Last edited by sambear; 05-24-2007 at 12:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-23-2007, 04:04 PM
sambear sambear is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dalmeny, SK, Canada
Posts: 26
Likes: 7
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

I lost my Grandfather (the original owner) when another tractor pinned him on a hillside; I forgot to include that reason as to why I feel very emotional about working on this W-30.

Last edited by sambear; 05-24-2007 at 12:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-23-2007, 04:19 PM
Jim Tremble Jim Tremble is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,769
Likes: 2,277
Liked 589 Times in 308 Posts
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by sambear View Post
No tugs while in gear, I agree. I lost my Grandfather (the original owner) when a tractor pinned him on a hillside;
My God Man, tow the tractor to the shop and remove the engine for the needed repairs.

The people that responded to your request has given you very good advise !!!! Please follow their info.

We, they, have done this so many times, we are just telling you the best way to get the engine loose.

Jim

Last edited by Jim Tremble; 05-23-2007 at 04:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-23-2007, 05:08 PM
Mike McKnight Mike McKnight is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mason, Tennessee USA
Posts: 5,842
Likes: 5,900
Liked 5,335 Times in 1,991 Posts
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tremble View Post

My God Man, tow the tractor to the shop and remove the engine for the needed repairs.


Jim
Jim, Sambear might be one of those fellows who prefers to work out under a shade tree like me....of course I'd prefer a shop if I HAD one....but haven't had the money to spring for one yet! I might if I'd quit buying old "junk"!

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-23-2007, 08:40 PM
Eric M. Eric M. is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Southern CA, USA
Posts: 2,113
Likes: 1,028
Liked 1,096 Times in 477 Posts
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

For loosening rusty stuff in general, I'm a staunch believer in kroil. www.kanolabs.com If possible, you might want to take the heads off and wirewheel the inside of the bore (if the pistons aren't aluminum) paying close attention to the junction of bore and piston. That will help whatever you use to penetrate where it is needed. If the pistons are aluminum, they might have swelled, and you can easily damage the block if you try to force them out. In that case, your only option is to break the pistons and buy new ones.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-23-2007, 08:48 PM
CaptainJohn CaptainJohn is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hesperia, Michigan USA
Posts: 212
Likes: 32
Liked 35 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

I add more as it creeps in and evaperates. Differant objects set up a viabration when struck with tools. You got to experiment there. Just like a bell when struck has vibes. There may be sonic vibrators for this??? Like sonic waves to clean parts. Hope this helps. Capt,n
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-24-2007, 09:11 AM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glenville, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 2,133
Likes: 6,195
Liked 6,652 Times in 1,062 Posts
Default Re: Unseizing an engine


Sambear, You did not say what your intentions were for this engine. I think the amount of time it has been stuck, and the amount of moister involved will make several of your decisions for you. If you wanted to "get er loose & runner quick", that would likely be a mistake. There are probably Valves that will not seat again, and rings that are stuck tight in the ring lands, even if you got it loose it needs to come apart. My advice is to make sure you want to do it, then haul it in and tear it apart. There are several ways to get the stuck pistons out once it is apart, but the family tractor needs to have a complete valve job, cylinders, pistons, and rings need to be prepared. Crank journals, and bearings inspected, and checked for oil clearence, and if this motor has water in the oil DO NOT OVERLOOK the large roller main bearings. If these bearings are pitted, they will haunt you with an obnoxiuos grinding noise for the rest of your life
Your family tractor, and your grandfathers memory should be honored with an investment of time & money (if you live to be 70+, whats a year & $2000.?) besides it will all come back to you and yours on sale day if it runs good
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-24-2007, 01:39 PM
sambear sambear is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dalmeny, SK, Canada
Posts: 26
Likes: 7
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

I agree with Tony (and others) that moving the W-30 tractor into the garage is very important for its restoration. Alas, until that can be arranged, I have to keep up the efforts under the prairie sky.

Most of this preliminary work is dedicated unseizing the engine and cleaning out as much 'crap' as I can before it is trailered to my home.

The ideas presented by everyone are very appreciated. Much, have I, to think about as this process continues.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-09-2008, 10:03 AM
Dale Jass Dale Jass is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alden Iowa. Hardin county
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

We are trying to free a IY-69 continental dad bought somewhere around 1950 and it was stuck then.Dad used it for a long time on the bale elevator or putting ear corn in the crib. We now have it at home for a 4 H project my son has it soaking but it seems really stuck again. I gave him a can of Kroil and a can of PB Blaster, one piston is pooling to the top of the plug hole the other three are taking fluid so we asume the one piston is at fault. We have a make shift arm with weight hanging off the pto for constant pressure and we pry a little everyday but its been a month of this and no progress yet. I found a manual for it but we really dont want to tear her apart yet any more Ideas as to what to do? Is NAPA a good source for parts for this motor if we need to pull the head?. Also any other info on this motor would be great if someone had it. We think its off a model 52R IH combine infact were positive dad took it from one and the pto is diferant then the baler model. Thanks for any input.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-09-2008, 10:39 AM
Patrick McNallen Patrick McNallen is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,250
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Unseizing an engine

You might try draining the crankcase and turning the engine upside down, then pouring the oil and penetrant mix back into it. That might allow the penetrant to access the stuck parts better by seeping around the piston skirt and thru the oil drainback holes around the oil ring and into voids around the wrist pin, etc. This may help penetrant reach the valve guides, too. If the engine has a starter ring gear, prying on it with a large screwdriver, first in one direction and then the other, may loosen the engine. If you get it to move, it will probably only move a fraction of an inch. Moving it back and forth over a period of days, a little farther each time, will usually allow it to turn over after a week or so. Leave it upside down to soak in between working on it. When you try to turn the engine, remove the spark plugs, since some cylinders will probably be oil-locked. Look for rust and crud in any oil that runs out of the cylinders.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:10 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark
A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2014 by Harry Matthews
P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277