New find: Lister L 4Hp

[ListerDiesel]

Dating information for the Lister range of engines is also on our website, it's on the Technical menu, first item.

If you can post all of the detail off the brass plate, the details of the engine can be worked out.

It looks like an early engine as the later L's had tubular main bearings. Could even be something else...

Peter

[KidDynamo]

Originally Posted by Samuel.G

No, the mains aren't shimmed, and it's not end play I'm feeling. What I want to know is, why is it that the Mains on the side where you crank it worn, but not the ones on the load bearing belt pulley side? Anyway, I lifted the bearing shell on the worn side again, and really polished up the mating surfaces, and reassembled it. It significantly reduced the play. I'm wondering if I could skim a bit off the bearing cap to reduce the play, any ideas? Or could I put a shim under the bearing shell? It gets me thinking.....

Looks like your parts engine had lubrication failure and one or more bearings got hot. I had to overhaul the oil pump, screen and distribution lines on my L because of junk in the base and moisture related corrosion compromising oil line sweat joints. Perhaps the hot bearing wasn't getting it's share of oil, even if your's has a different way to oil the bearing than mine.

Filing the caps on an engine with insert bearings is not good engineering. Shimming the shells is a bit half-baked but it can be done. An old timer taught me about using rice paper under the bearing shells. The stuff he used would take up about 1/2 a thousandth if a piece was under both halves and it outlasted the rest of the engine.

Problem is, if you can tear assunder to the point of shimming, you can just as easily replace the shells with new. The point of the rice paper shims under the shells was that a barely worn journal could be actually trued up, by hand, to a slight under size and then the shims would allow the use of a new standard bearing shell size.

The reason for it was cost: the guy had time, no machine tooling, and no money. It would have been a lot quicker and easier to do it "right", if he'd had more money, but less time. It can be a very time consuming process, as it is basically hand fitting and it has to be near-perfect to get similar results as he would get.

Make sense?

Don't file the caps. That's my 2d.

[B. K. Lahey]

Gotta agree with the Kid, don't file the caps . Also clean all the oil lines, repack the pump and then ensure it's pumping oil to the mains, you may have to bleed the line too, they seem to get an airlock between the pump and where the line goes into the engine block.
Steady steady is good

[Samuel.G]

I Just hooked up the oil pump, It pumps fine as it looks like it has recently been repacked. However, I did make one mistake, In tightening the oil line going to the mains too tight. It didn't do any permanent damage, but it spun around in its hole and bent one of the oil pipes going to the bearings. It now seems to be a loose fit in it's hole. Re-bend it back, or scavenge off the parts engine? And no, Ive decided not to file the caps. Photos (hopefully) coming soon

[B. K. Lahey]

Hi Samuel, I would recomend taking the feed pipes out (yah I Know it's a pain) and soldering that loose joint, otherwise that is as far as the oil is going to travel, then you have a dry bearing.
I've got a couple of Listers so any help or info you need I'll do my best to help , allways good to see young blood in this hobby and/or addiction
BK

[Samuel.G]

Originally Posted by B. K. Lahey

Hi Samuel, I would recomend taking the feed pipes out (yah I Know it's a pain) and soldering that loose joint, otherwise that is as far as the oil is going to travel, then you have a dry bearing.
I've got a couple of Listers so any help or info you need I'll do my best to help , allways good to see young blood in this hobby and/or addiction
BK

Interesting thing is, it still pumps heaps of oil to the bearing even though its loose. I'm wondering about just epoxying it up. And yes, i call it an addiction/obsession now too . TI thought I might try the bearing again now it has oil going to it, and what do you know; No play! Serves me right testing the play on a dry bearing, ay? The exhaust valve seat is badly pitted, I will have to either borrow a valve-seat cutter or get it fixed at the auto store. Anyway, here are a few more photos:

Front view of the engine, notice all that lovely (alas dirty) paint coming out from under the layer of grease.





The fuel/oil pump hooked up, and working fine





Rear view, sorry about the light in the photo.





And completely off topic, but look at the sediment cup I picked up today for $3 in a bargain bin in the local traders!





I will be trying to salvage the rings off the parts engine to try tomorrow.

[Samuel.G]

Well, I managed to salvage a ring off the parts engine, so now my 4hp has a whopping 2 rings. I'm going to have to get a new set I think. Also, I scavenged the oil feed pipe off the parts engine, swapped it over in a few minutes so no probs there.

[Jordan]

hi samuel,

thanks for keeping us up to date on your progress. it is interesting to follow. keep up the good work.

jordan

[B. K. Lahey]

Sounds like you've had a win Samuel!! You've probably done it, but, check the "blind" area of the head, my J was nearly blocked there with carbon and crud, lovely job too there's not much room up there to work.
I got new rings here in Oz for about $70, worth a thought.

[Samuel.G]

Yeah, I was quoted $100 for a set of rings here, so that would be about right. At least if I get a new set, it gives me an excuse to hone the bore lol . Thanks for the info about that spot in the head, I will check it later on. So the checklist goes:

Mains: Fine
Big end: Tolerable
Oil pump: Apparently working
Carburettor: Mostly freed up
Rings: Pending
Valve seats: Pending
Cam followers: Freed up


Getting there

[B. K. Lahey]

What I've found with Lister, the rings wear, but, the bore and piston dont, I had a ring gap of 1/8in and the top ring was loose in the groove. New rings,
.018in and firm in the groove, worth the money. Also no smoke. Keep up the good work,
BK

[Samuel.G]

Alright, I took the bore, valves, rings and piston into the local auto store yesterday and this id he story:

They will be reaming out the valve guides to a metric size and fit new valves in there, as well as grinding the absolutely buggered exhaust seat. Also, I am waiting on a quote for the new rings, I will just have to wait and see how much this is going to cost me

[jelbart]

G,day Samuel
theres a guy in Australia who sells lister parts new vallve rings gasket almost any thing his name is Brian wells he advertse in the Tomm magazine his price are very good

[B. K. Lahey]

Brian Wells. phone 0267608276 very reasonable AND very helpful (don't know if he speaks Kiwi though)

[B. K. Lahey]

Hi Samuel, the price must have really shocked you, havn't heard from you since
BK

[Samuel.G]

Originally Posted by B. K. Lahey

Hi Samuel, the price must have really shocked you, havn't heard from you since
BK

Sorry about that, I haven't had a chance to ring him yet. I think I will leave it for now, as there seems to be little play in them now they are all nicely oiled up. What the guy who sold it to me said was "The flywheels are that heavy, and they run that slow, the crankshaft isn't going to be bouncing around in there too much anyway". To an extent, he has a point . Still waiting to hear back on the rings and valves, I will go in there and give the shop a rev-up tomorrow.

[Samuel.G]

Right, sorry about the long reply time. Firstly, the valve job has been done, just waiting on the rings; cost: $250 all up.
I have just repacked the oil pump as it began to leak oil around the plunger, so far so good.
I may have a source for a magneto for it, time will tell .
I am still unsure about the mains, for all the work it will do, I think it will be fine, but I will still keep the number B.K provided in mind. I hear the bearing shells are the same as on the early diesel Lister's, is that correct?
Lastly, in response to ListerDiesel, Here is the info I found on the engine:

On the inspection plate, It says that it is an L type, 4hp @ 400rpm, s/n 17850.
Stamped on one flywheel is the serial number, and on the other you see the serial number again, but also underneath it you see

TI
47384

Any ideas what the second set of numbers and letters mean?

[Samuel.G]

***UPDATE!!!***

Well, I picked up the new rings and valves for my Lister today! The rings are on, just waiting for my father to give me a lift with the barrel. I still haven't got a mag yet, but I know someone that may have one for me. The valves are out of a Waukesha engine and seem to seat really good in their re-sleeved valve guides. More info and hopefully some "after" photos soon!

[Ray Freeman]

Originally Posted by jelbart

G,day Samuel
theres a guy in Australia who sells lister parts new vallve rings gasket almost any thing his name is Brian wells he advertse in the Tomm magazine his price are very good

I did up a Lister L (1926) and the exhaust valve was unusable. I rang Brian Wells and asked him if he had a valve for a 1926 Lister L. Without hesitation he said I have two new ones on the shelf. Whats your address and I'll have one in the mail this afternoon. Thats good service. My guides were also badly worn and I ended up removing the old guides and making up new ones. It was an easy job. A engine shop put inserts in the valve seats. Your oil suction line is a different position to mine and the decompression tap point to the rear of the engine. They make a nice steady running engine.

[Samuel.G]

***IT RUNS!!!***

Well, here is a video of the beauty in action! Beware, it is a dialup killer at almost 10m megs! Still no mag, it is running on a buzzcoil at the moment.