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Generators & Motors General Discussion Antique Generators, Light Plants and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Motors General Discussion

1967 Hercules generator


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  #1  
Old 08-14-2007, 12:37 PM
buzzboy buzzboy is offline
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Default 1967 Hercules generator

I recently aquired a '67 military hercules generator. I was told that the generator was toast but the motor still ran fine. So far I haven't gotten it to turn on quite yet.

I attempted to electronically start it but realized that it runs a 24 volt system. I don't know though whether it will turn over or not on just 12. Will it?

I have also tried to pull start the engine but the compression is high enough that I can do absolutely nothing. The original owner told me that there was a way to lower the compression for pull starting the engine? Is this so? If so where is it located?
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Old 08-14-2007, 06:44 PM
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Talking Re: 1967 hercules generator

Usually, Compression Release Levers are up on the Head, and are setup to
Hold the Exhaust Valve OPEN, while you get the crankshaft up to some
semblence of speed,and then you trip them OFF, and your diesel, POPs
on the first Compression Stroke. I suspect you will not get enough out
of a 12Vdc Battery to spin your engine fast enough to get passed the
first Compression Stroke, assuming you DON'T have a Compression
Release, built in.

Bruce in alaska
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Old 08-15-2007, 02:15 AM
Raymond Raymond is offline
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

You didn't give us much to go on. Is there a data plate. How many cylinders? diesel or gas. Nope 12v won't roll it. Are the generator windings black or brown. Is it a slip ring machine with static Mag-amp exciter? (is there a FIELD FLASH spring return toggle switch?) Military's usually have several data plates including wiring diagrams and schematics. I have a 1969 15 KW Herculese powered military generator given up for dead. The resurection cost less than $1.00, not counting the batteries and fan belt; now like new (runs like ; not looks like) Post some Pix = 1,000 words.
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Old 08-15-2007, 09:05 AM
buzzboy buzzboy is offline
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

Sorry for being brief. It is a 1376cc flat 4, gas, air cooled motor.

I'll get pix up soon to describe my machine.
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Old 08-15-2007, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

Generator End


Panel side


Engine End(covered)


Battery Side


Electrical Schematic


Engine Plate


Engine End(uncovered)


Engine
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Old 08-15-2007, 03:05 PM
JBittnerSr JBittnerSr is offline
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

There is no compression release on the MEP-018. You will need 24volts to start it. They were a good strong generator that could put out close to 50% more in real life, but NOISEY due to the flywheel fan
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Old 08-15-2007, 04:09 PM
John Schwiebert John Schwiebert is offline
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

On half of a related item, Was that engine built for the goverment onlY?
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Old 08-15-2007, 04:59 PM
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

John, I've seen several of those around at shows, some on go carts and one on a Cushman scooter, and they were all Government surplus.
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Old 08-15-2007, 06:07 PM
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Talking Re: 1967 hercules generator

Yep, No Compression Release on a Gasoline fueld engine. Your just go'en
to have to pony up for two 12Vdc Batteries, I wouldn't think that they would
need to be very large though. A couple of Group 12's ought to be fine.
3600 Rpm means these are "Screamers" at 10Kw. Lots of Screaming
while communicating within 20Ft of them, depending on the muffler,
and mechanical nosie conduction.

Bruce in alaska
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

When I start it should the generator be connected to the panel box or not. I so far have gotten different results both ways.

This will probably be a dumb question to you engine guys but what is the deal with the exhaust/air intake? What exactly does that thing do?
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Old 08-15-2007, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
You didn't give us much to go on. Is there a data plate. How many cylinders? diesel or gas. Nope 12v won't roll it. Are the generator windings black or brown. Is it a slip ring machine with static Mag-amp exciter? (is there a FIELD FLASH spring return toggle switch?) Military's usually have several data plates including wiring diagrams and schematics. I have a 1969 15 KW Herculese powered military generator given up for dead. The resurection cost less than $1.00, not counting the batteries and fan belt; now like new (runs like ; not looks like) Post some Pix = 1,000 words.
Well, the static mag amp does seem exited

I am really not understanding the lingo. This is all very new to me. Sorry.
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Old 08-16-2007, 10:08 AM
JBittnerSr JBittnerSr is offline
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

If you are refering to the lever on the bottom of the air cleaner, that prewarms the intake air by routing in over the exhaust pipe to make it easier to run in extremely cold regions.
You can have the gen connected to the load when starting as long as the output breaker on the gen is open. You never want to try to start with a load applied.
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Old 08-16-2007, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

It just occurred to me you said Hercules. They were military spec, built by more than one manufacturer, I guess. Any way all the ones I have seen were made by Continental/Teledyne.
Saturn Surplus may have parts or a manual.
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Old 09-02-2007, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

Sorry to bring this old one back but I got a few more Q's.

I was told that this generator is gone. It has issues that have to do possibly with the engine's location for the past ten years. It gets salt spray regularly with our strong winds.

Today I went to remove the generator from the Engine and I ran into a problem. I removed every single screw attaching the generator to the frame and to the fan housing. Then I got to the coupling on the drive shaft and hit a brick wall. There are 8 screws. Only 6 of which were possible to get off and I did. The other two look like they don't connect the drive shaft's but I don't really know. I still can't manage to pull this thing apart.

Any help greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-04-2007, 07:16 AM
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Default Re: 1967 hercules generator

Ok, answered that last question by myself. It was coroded together.

One final question:
Someone told me this looked like a VW engine. I wasn't too sure but, would this work in a bug. I am getting a bug soon and I don't know whether to try this or start searching for a bug engine.
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:45 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: 1967 Hercules generator

The engine is a Military Standard Engine designed by the Army Corps of Engineers. You will see this design with MANY differing manufactures names on the engine. It all depended on WHO won the contract.
I have seen one with Hercules as the mian contractor and Wisconsin as the Sub-contractor.
Kent
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:48 AM
B.Sparks B.Sparks is offline
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Default Re: 1967 Hercules generator

You'd best be on the lookout for a Bug engine for your Bug.

The Hercules is of a similiar layout (4 cylinder, air-cooled "boxer" motor) but it's far from a 'drop in' fit for a Beetle. One issue that comes to mind is the location of the cooling fan. Your Hercules engine will be too long (fore to aft) on account of the crankshaft-mounted fan.

Of course, if you were a good machinist you could probably fabricate a suitable adaptor but you'd have to put more time and effort into the project than it's worth. Unless you really want to.
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:54 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: 1967 Hercules generator

After looking at the pictures, this generator loks to be same as the one the fire dept has. It was a life saver during the January ice storm. Use it to power a gas sation which I found out later suppied fuel for people in four surrounding countys. I believe the unit was orginally for a laundry unit as the one we have has a placard showing a point to connect a gasoline fuel water heater.

Yes you need 24 volts for starting. The 24 volt alternator has a stator under the rope start pulley and magenets in the pulley.
I also notice that it look as if the regulaterand control panel are unplugged from the generator head.
The unit we have does not use the generator as a starter. It has a deacated starter.

Kent
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:53 PM
rasuth rasuth is offline
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Default Re: 1967 Hercules generator

I have one of those as well.

The engine is a 4A-084 standard engine, which is magneto driven and was supplied by Hercules, Teledyne and Continental (at least).

The generator is self excited, but uses an 'Automatic Voltage Regulator' (located behind the lower panel section of the electronic compartment.. all the meters are on a hinged panel that drops down, but the bottom of that compartment contains the regulator). This is different than the 'resonant' self-excited generators that just have a capacitor across this winding (usually found on lower power, less expensive units. Don't run a house circuit off of these)

The regulator controls the current through the field winding (30ohms) to regulate the output voltage. If is not working (which is pretty common) no current goes through that winding, which results in no output. If it is partially working, the regulation sucks.

Unfortunately, Saturn Surplus no longer has stock for the AC regulator though they still have the 24V charging regulator that is driven from the alternator underneath the 'rope start' pulley on the 4A-084.

The good news is that there are several manufacturers for the AVC that would work with the 30ohm field winding, and do a better job of regulation and line safety to boot The bad news is that I haven't yet had the time to make the one I have work, yet.

Don't blame the generator core, yet.

Manuals can be purchased on CD at http://www.combatindex.com/index.html under 'Army Generators'. which includes TM5-6115-275-24P and TM5-6115-275-14.
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Old 09-26-2007, 09:04 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: 1967 Hercules generator

I have to disagee with the statement about NOT running house current for the generator. The one our fire department has can generate 120/240 single phase. This is what I used to power the gas station during the January ice storm/power outage. I know some of the 5KW military gensets WERE NOT built to provide 120/240 single phase. Some of the 10 KW may have also been built this way, I have only seen the one we have. Alway look at the data plate on the genset for what voltages and phases it can supply.

Kent
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