One last question about this Army Genset

[AlanD]

Here's my new toy. If I cant get it to run without spending alot on it Im going to get rid of it. Has anyone had any experience with these type of units. Ive gotten it to turn over but there is no ignition spark. Im thinking the condenser in the magneto is bad. Of course there could be more wrong in there- but thats the next step. it is a PU-286/G
Any advice on my next move?

Thanks for any advice.

Alan in Louisiana

[Rich Mc]

The 1958 information that I have says that it is a 6 volt starting system with battery charging from the 50 volt exciter section of the unit. Also there maybe a remote start module with voltage sensitive relays that may interact with the kill line to the magneto if more than 6 volts is used a the battery voltage. I say this just in case you may have been using a 12 volt battery in your attempt to start the unit.

Eliminating all the control circuits influence by disconnecting the low voltage kill wire going to magneto should allow magneto spark to the plugs, if the points and condenser are good

I have a schematic for the PE-197 which is the 286/g'S predecessor and there is no low oil or high temp safety switches used on it but the 286 may have them and would undoubtly use the kill wire to the magneto to facilitate the stop. Those switches if they exist can be a source of starting trouble.

The technical manual for your unit is TM-940A
It has a Hercules ZXB engine
I think that it would be great to have this 5KW(0.8PF) 1800 rpm unit.

[AlanD]

Thanks for replying. That is helpful info. I was aware of the safety interlocks that might be preventing ignition so I removed the small wire at the bottom of the magneto to make sure this wasn't happening. Of course this is temporary - I know not to defeat safety interlocks permanently.
I got on it last night, pulled the magneto and replaced the condenser. While I was in there I polished all the contacts. Now I have ignition!!
I did not try to start it last night because it was late by the time I got it back together.
I was trying to start it with 12 volts, you see the JumpIt in the picture. Apparently the 12v doesnt stop the ignition circuit - I reconnected the little magneto wire because I realized I had no way to kill the engine when it does start.
There is a black handle that can be pulled up and down. I have pointed to it in this picture. Is this the choke? If not, how do you choke it?

Thanks for all your help!

[K D Redd]

The knob/handle I think is a primer for the fuel system.

Kent

[Rich Mc]

In the last photo posted, right above the air cleaner there is a round yellow device with a wire attached. Fairly sure this is your electric choke, it a heater bimetalic spring that closes the choke in sync with the starter motor power and opens with hot exhaust gases or manifold contact. An electric choke is necessary as part of the remote start feature.

[AlanD]

Well I got it running last night! It was the condenser in the magneto that was bad. To get it running I used one from a lawnmower rebuild kit which is a bit smaller than the original. I hope I can still get a closer replacement from OReilly's or Autozone. For all I know they may not stock condensers anymore.
Where do you guys get new condensers?

It ran ok but I noticed it was boiling its water. Today while the hurricane was blowing through I drained the water and found out it was very clogged with what looked like fine pea gravel - see picture. Thats the water outlet pipe that was totally clogged and you can see the pile on the ground in the rear. I know there are many passages in the water jacket I just hope they are not all clogged and the radiator cleaner stuff will clean it out. I really dont want to pull the head.

Where can I get a manual for this generator?

Alan

[AlanD]

Well I ran the gen for 30 minutes and measured the block temperature to be around 200 degrees. Is this good or bad?

After I shut it down I could not get it restarted, and after checking around on it I see that I have lost ignition fire. So I'm going to replace the condenser again - the one that's in there is a lawnmower type, which was all I had at the time.

What about the block temperature?

Thanks
Alan

[BTPost]

For a Water Cooled Engine, 200F is very much in the acceptable Operating
Temp Range, for just about ANY Genset.

Bruce in alaska

[AlanD]

Thank you Bruce, That eases my mind about that.

[AlanD]

Ok I ran the genset on one gallon of gas to measure how long it would run, and got one hour and 20 min on one gallon of gas, and this is no load.

Is this normal/typical?
Im wondering how practical this genset will be in an emergency, seeing as how you can get around 6 to 8 hours on a modern 5 KW genset

Thanks
Alan

[Wayne 440]

If you know where I can buy a 5kw gasoline generator that will run "6 to 8 hours" on a gallon of fuel, please forward the relevant information. Mine use at least three times that amount. Based on the gasoline sets I have used/owned in the past, I would say your consumption is reasonable.

[Fred M.]

The key is "no load".

The Honda EB7000i, EM7000iSAB and EU6500i generators are rated at 5500 watts continuous. The catalog claims about a gallon per hour at full load.

Under no load conditions, their "Eco Throttle" feature decreases engine speed while their DC-to-AC inverters keep output voltage constant. One of them just might make it for 6 to 8 hours on a gallon with no load.

Does anyone know a Honda dealer who would be willing to run the test?

Fred

[K D Redd]

You will quickly find that when you need electricity during a extended power outage that ANY generator is practical. You WILL NOT worry about fuel consumption.

Kent

[AlanD]

I wasnt meaning a new generator would run 6 to 8 hours on one gallon, but a full tank which I assumed would be around 5 gallons.

I guess this generator is not too bad as far as efficiency.

Thanks for your responses.

Alan

[AlanD]

Mr. Reed

What you say is indeed true. But We were ground zero for Hurricane Rita and gasoline was very hard to come by for about a week and a half. I didnt run a generator then but to keep one fed I would have had to drive about a hour away to find a working gas station that wasnt sold out.
So with everything in mind I was considering the impracticality of having a big generator since it become very hard to keep it fueled.

Lots of people around here have these smaller newer generators that have 3 four and 5 gallon tanks that run for hours - and they seem to be a better choice to have.

Im not complaining at all. I love restoring and running these machines but I have been thinking of these issues.

Thanks for all your input

[stephen girouard]

it takes a certain amount of fuel to make a certain amount of power, if you save 16 ounces a fuel an hour for the same kw, (i wouldn't rate no gen at no load when needed there loaded) which is about the best you can hope for. it takes a long time to pay for a new gen at those savings. 4000$ for a electronic governor (eco throttle), my old iron will run a long time on that much fuel, if i had no gen to start with and a deep pocket i may buy a honda but you already have a solid generator

[stephen girouard]

i buy 50 galon's of gas before huricane season & stabil it , at the end of season i burn it in the vehicles if not used i got caught with 20 gallons of gas for rita also,

[Raymond]

That's why they invented the diesel. On a generator they use less than half the fuel than the gasoline or gas counterparts. It's because the compression ratio is around 6 to 1 for the gas units and 14 to 1 or higher for the diesels. Also many newer gas units turn 3600 rpm, so the fuel economy gain by the newer higher compression units is offset by the high speed. My 6KW DJE burns 1/2 gal per hr and 12 KW DJC's burn 1 gal per hr. For a good solid dependable generator that will start dependably use meager fuel and not kill you or burn you with the exhaust , a diesel is the only way to go. It costs more up front, but the fixing the carburetor and ignition and failing to start isn't part of the deal.

[Jim Kinler]

i second raymonds comments, diesel is the best way to go. my diesel 802a(lister engine) burns .5 hr. for 5kw, my old ws 3kw water cooled onans use .5 hr. my 3600 rpm sets, water cooled honda .6 hr. 4 kw, mep-016a .8 hr. 3kw. and then theirs my mep-018at 2.2 gal. per hr. for 10kw (never use it)

[Rich Mc]

The catalog spec for the PE 197 unit is 1.2 gal/hr at rated load. No spec is given for the PU 286-G but it is an nearly an identical unit.

And I see in these threads and others that the diesel engine performance continues to be the new alchemy. Diesel vs gasoline difference in efficiency +/- 10% tops.