Dodge Brothers Engine Help

[Bob Bachman]

A friend just dragged home a doodle bug built from a 1927? four door dodge sedan. It is missing the carb.

A plate on the floor board lists a vehicle number of A-726948.
Stamped on the driver side of the engine is B-779-809.

Very unusual setup. The engine air intake is piggy-backed over the exhaust manifold. There is a port which goes crosswise thru the block between 2 & 3 cylinders. On that side of the engine is a second port above the first that goes back into the block and (assumed) to the intake valves. The carb must be u-shaped and connect to these two openings. From some research we think the carb would be a Stewart.

Looking for help on confirming the year of mfg and what we need for to replace/identify the carb. Pictures below.

Bob

[Rick McKay]

Google the dodge brothers club, and check out their discussion forum, they can probably help you out with the year, and type of carb you need for the old girl

good luck,

Rick

[Inter Bloke]

Googling the Dodge brothers club is a good idea, they have a lot of information on early 4s. It might pay to check out "Romar" as well, they supply a lot of services for the old Dodge fraternity.

I have the remains of several old 20s Dodge 4s, but have never seen an engine like yours ! On the early models they used a 12 volt north east electric starter generator which mounted on the left front of the engine at the point where your oil filler is located, and on the later 6 volt twin unit electric engines the distributor is mounted on the left rear of the block. For yours to have a magneto drive on the right with no provision on the left for either distributor or starterator I am a bit puzzled at what you actualy have. With the carby mounted that way, it is something unusual my guess would be something in the Graham Brothers truck line (but only a guess) or something industrial. I have the remains of a 25 Graham and it is identical to the same year car. All the Dodge and Graham car and truck engines I have seen have the Stewart carby mounted on the left of the block, and it looks like it must have had a connection there on yours at some time as the vacume line for the stewart vacume tank is on the fitting bolted where the carby is usually fitted. That line would need to be behind the throttle buterfly to work.
Any chance it's some sort of vapouriser setup to burn kerosene?
Seems unlikely but just wondering.
I am real curious what you have, so if the Dodge club blokes can identify it will you post what it is ?
Goodluck,
Graham

[Junkologist]

Bob,
It is indeed a Stewart carb that is original to that engine. There is one available on eBay at this time. eBay listing #170162338304. You have an earlier engine. The later engines had the intake and exhaust all on the same side of the block. I believe 1926 was the first year for that.

[Bob Bachman]

Graham and others,

The Dodge Bros site has been very helpful. We have determined we have a 1927 series B, 3 main engine. 6 volts with a starter.

The magneto is an "aftermarket" cobble. A right-angle drive distributor should be behind the water pump where the magneto is.

We need to know how to drain the oil as there is no drain plug in the crakcase.

Where do we find a head gasket or a suitable substitute?

Bob

[Bob Bachman]

A couple of more things.

We did get a carb off ebay. It seems to fit and looks like it belongs on the engine.

If you look at the right side view in the picture in my first post you can see the original ignition coil still mounted on the top front of the head next to the upper radiator hose.

Bob

[Junkologist]

I'm suprised your engine is a 1927. I have a 1926 model with a conventional intake and exhaust and an updraft Stewart carb on the right side of the block. All earlier engines I have seen have the intake through the block like yours. My engine has five main bearings. I have separate 6volt starter and generator. Your engine couldn't have had the combination starter and generator because it would have been mounted where the oil filler/crankcase breather is. Seems strange that Dodge would build an engine like that at that point in time.

[Bob Bachman]

Here is a link to my thread on the Dodge Bros Club. Most of my info is coming from here and the DBC thread.

http://forums.aaca.org/ubbthreads.ph...537#Post458537

Bob

[Inter Bloke]

[quote=Junkologist;253051] I have a 1926 model with a conventional intake and exhaust and an updraft Stewart carb on the right side of the block./QUOTE]

I agree with you Mike, there seems to be something a bit screwy about Bobs friends engine ! I have the remains of a 26 here too, and it has the conventional 6 volt twin unit electrics but with the Stewart carby mounted in the old way on the left of the block. It also has the multi plate clutch, which I have read should have been discontinued by then. Just shows, you never know what you find sometimes.

Graham

[Bob Bachman]

Well, here are some more puzzling things about this engine.

The carb in the picture below fits fine and the tube on its air intake lines up with the hole thru the block. This carb is supposedly the "original oem" for the engine.

BUT, the bowl on the carb interferes with the starter. If we rotate the lower part of the carb 180* the interference is eliminated.

BUT, the carb air intake is now pointing away from the block.

We seem to need a different carb or a shorter starter.

Ideas??

Bob

[Junkologist]

I'm really scratching my head on this one. You seem to be dealing with a weird combination of early and late features on that engine. I have two original Dodge Bros. manuals here. One is dated 1926 and it shows an engine just like mine that I descibed in my previous post. The other manual is earlier and shows a 3 main bearing engine with the carb like you have and the combo starter and generator. Unfortunately, I don't have any literature from 1927.

[Inter Bloke]

You know, this has me quite intriged, so I went down and had a look at the remains of the old 26 model I have here to refresh my memory (funny thing memory). Wish I had done it earlyer, but still. I dragged the bones of this sad wreck in for a parts source for the 24 model I would like to restore sometime. I cant help with the carby because its not fitted but the rest of the engine is like yours. The distributor is mounted in the front right hand casting that contains the fan belt drive pully, yours seems to have a plug put into it to fill the hole and then the magneto has been mounted in the old early magneto driving position that I think in 1926 would have driven the 6 volt generator (the generator is missing on mine too, but it has a coupler to drive something so I presume the genny). The air intake has a cover over it with little "louvres" around it and the rest is much the same as what you have.
My carby is missing, (like I said I only got it for bits), but an early carby would do exactly like yours and hit the starter if you tried to mount it with the intake pointing the right way, so my bet is that that particular year the float chamber is on the other side. I don't ever remember seeing one like that but I surpose if its mounted in position on that style of engine you probibaly wouldn't notice it was any different to the earlyer years because it would still look like a Stewart carby. The Dodge brothers club blokes will most likely know if you ask them specifically.
If you want I can arrange to get acouple of photos taken and send them to you.
Anyway, goodluck,
Graham.

[Bob Bachman]

Here are a couple of scans of the engine from a service manual I found on ebay.

As you can see the generator should be where the magneto is now. The distributor went on the housing in front of the water pump. There is a plug in the hole in that housing on our engine. Below the plug is the gear which originally ran the distributor. If we had the matching gear we could adapt some other distributor.

So now we are looking for a generator, distributor, and a proper carb.

Thanks,

Bob

[Inter Bloke]

Yes, thats exactly the same as the engine in my old 26 !
Interesting to see the Stewart carby with the float bowl on the oposite side, I don't ever remember noticing that before, but you can bet I will look harder next time I see a 26.
I don't intend using any of the specifically 26 parts off this old wreck, so if you would like the remains of the distributor you can have it, I will post it if you like. Its not usable, the side is broken out of the body but the gear should be on the bottom. The vehicle was stopped because the diff blew up so that gear "should" be there. I can remove it sometime and have a look, but we are harvesting at the moment so I won't be able to get to it for about 4-5 weeks.

By the way, what the devil is a "DOODLE BUG"

[Bob Bachman]

Graham,

Yes, we would very much like to have the distributor. I have a machine shop so we shoud be able to adapt something to work. Email me and I'll return my address. bobach at voyager.net

"What the devil is a Doodle Bug"?

In the 1930s and 40s it was quite common for farmers in this country to take an old truck or car and tear the body off and make it into a tractor. They would remove the rear springs, shorten the frame and add a second transmisson behind the first. This gave them a wide range of power and ground speeds. The Model A Ford was very popular for this type of conversion. For what ever reason these home made tractors became known as "DoodleBugs". They are now becoming hot items to tractor collectors.

Thanks for your help and the offer of the dist.

Bob

[Bob Bachman]

We are going to need some new exhaust valves for the Dodge. We removed the old ones and had them refaced and now they are too thin on the edges of the bevel.

Any idea on where to get replacements or some valves we could alter to make work?

Bob

[huber]

My guess is that there are two different models of the Stewart carb. I have a 23 screenside, float is on the right, air intake points in (like you got on Ebay).

Your Doodle needs a carb with float on the left to clear the starter. intake pointing in. There was another carb on Ebay, not identifed as Dodge but looked like a Stewart to me. I forget which way it points.

[Ron Haskell]

Bob, for the valves try EGGE Obsolete Engine Parts in Santa Fe Springs CA. 1-800-866-EGGE. TRW used to put out a catalog with all the valves they made listed by stem diameter with all the other specs too. You might try a good auto parts store and see if they have such a listing.

[Bob Bachman]

Ron,

Thanks for the tip on Egge. We did however find some at Northwestern Auto Supply in Grand Rapis, Michigan.

IT LIVES!!!

We had the Dodge running today for the first time! Took a bit of tinkering to get the timing right and a lot of tinkering to get the carb figured out. Lots of smoke, fumes, and BIG smiles.

Next step is a drive around the yard.

Thanks for everyone's help.
Bob