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Generators & Motors General Discussion Antique Generators, Light Plants and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

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Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71


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  #1  
Old 12-03-2007, 06:03 PM
wild800 wild800 is offline
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Default Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

Hello All,
I am new here and would like to say hello to everyone.

I am working on restoring (A bunch of other things also, Very cool projecta couple of Detroit Diesel Gensets vintage 1945. ( believe a GM 60 KW 650VAC 3Phase)
One is suppose to be a runner and from what my limited knowlage can see it seems that gen #1 is the one. I need help with the componets on the engine and what they do in the control system. Also I do know that a couple of parts are missing. I am attaching a couple of Pics. I am charging Batteries now and hope to try to start in a couple of weeks.
The cover to the govenor is missing and there is a device missing which connects to the Emergency Shut down Dampner (murphy valve ???) there are wires that connect to this device also and seem to be a control loop of some kind.
I have no documention at this time so any help is greatly appreciated

Mike
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2007, 06:14 PM
wild800 wild800 is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71 more Pics

Here are pics of the govenor and the linkage on the blower that goes to nowhere with the disconnect wires at the top. I will post a pic of what these are in if anyone is interested/

Mike
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  #3  
Old 12-03-2007, 07:14 PM
Gunny Gunny is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

Mike:
Welcome to the forum.

Words or warning with a Detroit Diesel here. There is an air shut off damper under the air cleaner/filter. They put them there for a very good reason, to shut it down should you have a run away engine. Before you make anything else work, make that thing work and test it, before trying to start the engine. Be 100% certain you have the means to shut it down immediately should you have a run away. Else, you could end up with a scattered pile of scrap metal in a hurry and risk the very real possibility of injury from flying engine parts. A CO2 fire extinguisher will also shut one down, be sure it is charged, working and large enough and no a dry chemical will not do the job.
Be sure that you can control the engine speed. This means you take off the valve cover and are certain that the rack moves freely from no fuel to full fuel and there are no frozen/stuck injectors that could cause a run away. A frozen injector will cause a run away and is the most common cause of one of these things going to the moon.

Now that we have out of the way. Ask away and we will help all we can.
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Old 12-03-2007, 07:15 PM
Gunny Gunny is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

By the way, I can't see any pictures from this end.
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  #5  
Old 12-03-2007, 07:35 PM
wild800 wild800 is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

Gunny,

Thanks!! I reposted a new thread with the pics. I have a 15lb Co2 bottle in the room within easy hand reach, it will be manned on startup. I'll remove the Air cleaners to check the operation of the valves. I will also check the injector rack
for full movement.

Thanks!

Mike
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2007, 08:02 PM
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Talking Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

On "Most" 71 and 53 Series Jimmy's the Air Dam on the Blower Input is
Manually Activated. There usually is a Cable Assemby to a "Tee Handle"
mounted somewhere near the Operators Controls. I have never seen an
Air Dam that was triggered by a Remote Electric Actuator, but I haven't
seen a lot of things. Looks like someone removed a Third Party Governer
off the Governer Housing, and left it open. As long as you can move the
Fuel Rack manually, and take it to Fuel Cutoff, you can be ready to try and
Start the engine. As others have advised, Trip and Reset, the Air Dam a
couple of times, so you understand how that works before you get into
other stuff. Likey it will start up just fine, once you get the Fuel System
bleed. Keep the RPM's low untill your sure you got "Good Oil Pressure".
Once Oil Pressure is up, let the engine come up to "Operating Temprature"
at about 1200Rpm, while you look for Oil Leaks, and listen for Clanky
Bearings, and other mechanical Stuff. Once your at Operating Temp, and
no major Leaks and Clanks, you can then start messing with the Genend,
and looking at the rest of the Wiring, and Safety Shutdown System.
Basically, your going to be Manually Operating the whole Genset untill you
get past the Initial Engine Operation checks. Good Luck to you.......
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:04 PM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

I have seen a 4-71 on a harvester with a 12 volt DC actuator on the air door. This was tied into the oil pressure sensor (with a delay relay for startup) and the over temperature sensors on the cooling system. I believe it also had the manual pull cable as an additional safety measure.
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:33 PM
John Hanson John Hanson is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

If I was you, I'd take the housing off for the emergency flap, and make sure the flaps are attached to the rod and the RIGHT SIZE. I run a 6-71 on my crusher and had to pull the emergency...to make a long story short, it only slowed the engine down and made it smoke really bad, eventhough the linkage and all were free and everything appeared fine. I had the extension off the intake, and threw a 2x8 across it and got her stopped (and my helper had dived to the fuel tank and manually shut the valve off) so nothing got hurt, but it really made us scramble for a few seconds! They're pretty much a bullet proof engine, and actually quite economical for the period they were made.... you'll have fun with it!!
John
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:12 PM
wild800 wild800 is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

John,

I have manipulated the linkage on the dampner and it does close (actually snaps shut with a clump) but I'll be opening it up to eyeball the action. The cover on the govenor is a mystery (they have been removed off of both gensets) but I was able to get stamped numbers off of it. Everything has a bizillion coats of paint on it.

Regards,

Mike
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:21 PM
wild800 wild800 is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

Bruce,

You are probably right that the genset was operated manually as the previous owners were (my opinion only!) not into repairing with a budget. It does have DD filters on it instead of aftermarket ones.

Mike
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

Jim,
Thanks for that piece of information. This is in a marine application so I believe that there are a couple of safety controls in the run loop. There seems to be a solenoid on the fuel pump and one on the govenor and possibly an oil pressure and heat too. It seems as devices went bad they were wired out.

Mike
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Old 12-04-2007, 08:41 AM
Walter J. Walter J. is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

Mike, I also have a similar unit. PM with your email and I will send you some documentation that may help. It appears you have an overspeed governor that I do not have. I cannot see the front of engine so more pics would help.
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Old 12-04-2007, 10:29 PM
wild800 wild800 is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

Walter,

Is this what you are referring to? If not I'll take more Pictures this weekend.

Regards,

Mike
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  #14  
Old 12-13-2007, 02:37 AM
Raymond Raymond is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

I don't know that this detail has any bearing on runnaway detroits (they are my favorite) but I had a 1954 4-71. The way the linkage was made, if an injector piston froze in the barrel as would occur with dirty water in the fuel, the fuel control rod was also frozen in that position so the others stayed at that fuel delivery position. Stopping was by cutting off the air and fuel.
I checked several other later 71's, and they had a spring loaded lost motion linkage to each injector so that if one froze, the others could be pulled back allowing a normal stop or running in limp mode with full control of the good injectors if necessary. (Usually a slug of dirty water will freeze up all of them in just a few seconds so then no problem HUH! Anyone know anything about this?
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Old 12-23-2007, 04:19 PM
Butch B Butch B is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

From looking at your pics you have a hydraulic governor and the wiring for your air door is probably a DDC hot wire relay system both of these are covered in great debth in the Detroit Diesel I-71 service manual as otheres have stated be sure you can shut it down!!!!!! in 30 plus years of working at a DDC distributor a tin plate has saved my bacon more than once (to block off the air inlet)
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Old 12-24-2007, 02:12 PM
Brian Howard Brian Howard is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I don't know that this detail has any bearing on runnaway detroits (they are my favorite) but I had a 1954 4-71. The way the linkage was made, if an injector piston froze in the barrel as would occur with dirty water in the fuel, the fuel control rod was also frozen in that position so the others stayed at that fuel delivery position. Stopping was by cutting off the air and fuel.
I checked several other later 71's, and they had a spring loaded lost motion linkage to each injector so that if one froze, the others could be pulled back allowing a normal stop or running in limp mode with full control of the good injectors if necessary. (Usually a slug of dirty water will freeze up all of them in just a few seconds so then no problem HUH! Anyone know anything about this?
Detroit went this way in the 70's about when the 92 series came into being - as some of the units had the emergency stop removed to smooth air flow into the engine, and spring loaded racks was the only way to stop a runaway. I usually start an unfamiliar Detroit with the valve cover removed and Vice grips on the rack. Just make sure you have complete travel on the racks- the racks move out of the injector to shutdown.

The governor on this unit looks like a Woodward PSG. If so it would have had an electric motor on the top cover to control RPM. If you Google "woodward PSG" it will help.

Best of luck
Brian Howard
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Old 12-24-2007, 07:47 PM
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Talking Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

Just a Note on 2 Cycle Scream'en Jimmy's.... A Spring Loaded Rack will NOT
Stop a Runaway Jimmy that is sucking BaseOil up thru a set of worn rings.
The ONLY way to Stop that senerio, is to Cut Off the Air into the blower, or
let her windup until something lets go.....
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  #18  
Old 12-25-2007, 01:38 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

A second to BT Post. I had a trucker friend of mine also tell me a Jimmy was more likely to also runaway when a multi-viscosity oil like 15W-40 is used. Strait 40W first choice oil, 30W second choice.

Kent
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Old 12-26-2007, 12:29 AM
Butch B Butch B is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

The reason for straight weight oil over multi vis was that the multivis would contribute to cylinder scoring thus large amounts of oil out the air-box that if enough oil got into the air-box you could end up with a run away due to an alt fuel source. With the straight weight there is enough cushion to keep the pistons from metal tranfer to the liner. There is a service bullitin dated in the mid 80s if my memory serves me.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:29 AM
paulbrook paulbrook is offline
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Default Re: Help With a Detroit Diesel 6-71

A really helpful read here folks - especially as I am just about to take on the restoration of a WW2 Mack NM fitted with a 6-71 that itself had come out of a Sherman tank. The shut off gear is missing - does anyone have the necessary parts or the drawings?

You may see me again here as time goes on and I get to grips with this baby....

Its not up there yet but I will put pictures on my website - www.rustytrucks.com

Thanks
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