14GVW trailers and the laws?

[Tremel]

I posted this in other boards, but I'm very confused. I live in PA and I'm in the process of purchasing a 14K GVW gooseneck to pull behind my 3/4 ton truck. I've been told by several folks that I need a Class A license to pull my new trailer. Actually, I've been pulling a 12K bumper pull for years. So why do I need a class A? I'm still under 26000 loaded combined.

So, I called DMV and they told me that I needed a CDL since I was hauling equipment. I explained that I was not for hire and used my trailer to take tractors and engines to shows. That's it... No money being tranfered and I have no intention of driving a big rig.

I also heard that laws differ from state to state. I often travel to Ohio, WV and NY.

So, I want to hear from other's that pull trailers in Ohio, WV and especially PA as to what the laws are? I can't seem to find anything...

[Mike in NC]

When we lived in Pa, the law was that if the towing vehicle was under 26,000 GVW and the towed vehicle was under 10,000 GVW, class "C", if towing vehicle is under 26,000 GVW and the towed vehicle is 10,001 or over, then class "B" or a single vehicle over 26,001 GVW, and if the towing vechicle is over 26,001 GVW and the towed vechicle is over 10,001 GVW then class "A". The laws might have changed, not sure. Also, friends that live in PA say that they are getting harder on guys pulling goosenecks. One friend was getting rid of his gooseneck because how hard they are getting.

[Mike Cannon]

I agree that important information re hauling with trailers seems to be secretive here in Pa. A friend was pulled over as he was hauling some line shaft in his pickup bed. It stuck out without a flag. He was grilled and read the riot act but luckily not cited. I tried to find out the real law [he didn't know and the officer did not tell him] on this type maneuver and called dept motor vevicles in Harrisburg. As I remember it was like pulling teeth and complicated, so many inches overhang you do this, so many you do that, so many you cannot haul. I do not think it is in their Commercial Drivers License of Penna booklet either which makes it tough on everyone. With this type of information I feel sometimes it all gets down to how the officer is feeling that particular day. It makes it tough when we all want to do the correct and safe thing. Mike

[MoRo]

Originally Posted by Mike in NC

When we lived in Pa, the law was that if the towing vehicle was under 26,000 GVW and the towed vehicle was under 10,000 GVW, class "C", if towing vehicle is under 26,000 GVW and the towed vehicle is 10,001 or over, then class "B" or a single vehicle over 26,001 GVW, and if the towing vechicle is over 26,001 GVW and the towed vechicle is over 10,001 GVW then class "A". The laws might have changed, not sure. Also, friends that live in PA say that they are getting harder on guys pulling goosenecks. One friend was getting rid of his gooseneck because how hard they are getting.

C.D.L. Stands for C ommercial D river License. We know that. The requirements for which class applies to what vehicle you are driving are FEDERAL, which means they supercede any goofy ideas a state may cook up. Any state agency that is so obtuse about telling a citizen how its laws work is trying to hide something, IMHO.
Get yourself the Commercial Driver's handbook from which we all take our tests. What you need to know is in there. Oh, if something hangs off the back of your trailer 4' or more, you gotta flag it, if travelling at night, it has to have a red light attached to the rearmost point of the load.
Hope I helped.

[Clark Bigger]

Best thing to do there is when you register the trailer is drop your GVW to 9500 lbs
they have been getting goofy on things..
5 chains and binders for a skid steer loader?
Ha Ha...are they on crack or what?
older trucks are targeted pretty hard...even the well maintained ones will get written up for something...
my old trucks were all gas jobs except the diamond T......when the price of fuel went up so high it was not cost effective to run them anymore...and no one wants to buy them either.

[MoRo]

Trouble with dropping your GVW is that you'd best not get caught grossing any heavier than that. And remember, GVW stands for Gross Vehicle Weight. That means the weight of the pickup, trailer AND the load you're carrying. Depending on the pickup, you might be pushing 8,000 lbs EMPTY. Otherwise, make sure your checkbook is well stocked before hitting the road and have arrangements made for a place anywhere to unload part of your collection so as to get legal before they let you proceed down the road. Most states, anymore, view haulers of anything as a potential money-maker via fines.

[Virginia Mike]

I live in Virginia and have a 3 axle 14K trailer. I dropped the weight to 9,999 to aviod the DOT hassles. The price of an overweight ticket is less that the cost of complying with all the regulations. I haven't been bothered so far.
Best,
Mike

[sparkplug54]

Other reasons you have to have a CDL is if your involved with interstate commerce. Meaning if you cross state lines carrying a load that is involved with any type of business, such as buying then selling. The GVW is what they will go off of and if your over that then you get a ticket. DAn

[Clark Bigger]

From what I have seen they leave the pick up trucks alone unless it's a grossly overloaded rig
larger tag trailers get picked on if the truck is not licensed for combination
right now my truck is good for 20.000 gvw my trailer is good for 9500 ..electric brake trailer

I very rarely haul more than 4 1/2 ton so this is perfectly suited for what I do
my trailer is a 1971 eager beaver 9 ton lowboy 3 axel it has plenty of suspension for what I do. the one thing PA DOT really looks at on trailers is the tires ...no mobile home tires has to be a rated lowboy tire ....trailer originally had 8x14.5 I went to 7x14.5 lowered deck height nicely with out losing load capicity
There is a log truck that runs locally here that still runs TRIP STAKES....anyone remember those? I think they outlawed them about 1973

[sparkplug54]

maybe its intrastate rather than interstate anyway crossing stat lines would require you to have CDL if involved with business of any kind. Also you might get away with dropping weight when you register but some states such as Iowa they are very tight on the rules are fines are very hefty. Also if you get in an accident involving a death then you will go to prison.

[ListerDiesel]

It's not just the USA that has some funny reg's:

Up to 7.5 tonnes (tonne=metric ton or 2200lbs) you can drive on a car licence. Over that you need to get a truck licence.

Pulling a trailer needs a separate driving licence section and test if you haven't got Grandfather rights already.

Trailers up to 3.5 tonne gross weight are allowed over-run brakes, after that they have to be air brakes, we don't have electric brakes over here.

GCW, or Gross Combination Weight, or Gross Train Weight is the vehicle + Trailer + both loads.

I have a Class 2 Truck licence, that allows me to drive up to a 4 axle rigid truck or a truck and drawbar trailer, NOT an articulated truck which is a higher class.

Our general reg's are more or less in line with Europe now, and then there are tachographs.....

RV vehicles are a bit of a grey area, technically a truck that is hauling only your own engine and a trailer/caravan is not commercial, but there have been so many accidents with people driving full-size trucks on a car licence that it has been greatly revised, and the drive now has to have an appropriate class on his/her licence.

If I set up a big engine on the back of a truck, and pulled a trailer van, I wonder how that would go down if we drove it across the US as a visitor Quite legal over here, and probably OK as a visiting vehicle.

Peter

[MoRo]

Originally Posted by DanSheldon

Other reasons you have to have a CDL is if your involved with interstate commerce. Meaning if you cross state lines carrying a load that is involved with any type of business, such as buying then selling. The GVW is what they will go off of and if your over that then you get a ticket. DAn

Dan, I was posting more toward weight and licensing requirements on the truck itself, than the driver's license of the person doing the hauling.
Involved in commerce or not, a truck has to be licensed for the gross weight it will be running. It also has to have the appropriate number of wheels and axles. You can be ticketed for overloading your pickup at the same rate per pound over as a semi can.

[sparkplug54]

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.


This is the federal rules. Not any state requirements. Hope this helps

[MoRo]

Right you are, Dan, but again, I was not concerning myself with the type if drivers license possessed by the person hauling the load, I was addressing how much weight the unit is licensed to haul.
I think there is a restricted Class A for those driving pickup/trailer combos, but I'm not totally sure.

[Fred Van Hook]

I have a CDL class A licence without air brakes. So my CDL allows me a combination of over 26,000 lbs. I used this with a dump truck that the GVW was 25950 lbs. and a trailer at 14,000lbs. The reason I went that way I could take the driver test and do the obstacle course in my own vehicle. I didn't want to use their pile of junk.I converted a 98 rental truck and pulled my skid steer. I have since sold the equipment. I will keep the CDL if I can to hopefully keep me out of trouble. In the state of Indiana when I took my last test If it has air brakes you have to have a CDL. Unless you are running a big motorhome you dont have too. To many politicians don't want to get CDL's.
I was also told your plate had to be at least the GVW of the vehicle. If you under sized the weight on the plate that would get you in more trouble than being overweight.

[Tremel]

Today I recieved an "official answer" from DMV.

Since the total weight of the two are less than 26,001 pounds, you are not
required to have a noncommercial CDL. You may drive this vehicle with your
regular noncommercial class c license.

I will print the official response out and carry it with me at all times.

[Tom Marshall Jr.]

In Pa.: A 14000 GVW trailer requires a combination lisence. Your 3/4 pickup is most times not rated to tow more than 10000. Pa will not give you a combo plate for it. Now you can only haul what the truck is lisenced for. 10,000 or less trailers + truck 8500 = 18,500. Your truck 8500 + 14,000 requires a 22,500 combo plate if you can get it. A friend found out it is very expensive to get caught without a combo plate. check before you buy a trailer.

[Ed Allandar]

Originally Posted by Tremel

Today I recieved an "official answer" from DMV.

Since the total weight of the two are less than 26,001 pounds, you are not
required to have a noncommercial CDL. You may drive this vehicle with your
regular noncommercial class c license.

I will print the official response out and carry it with me at all times.

I agree with much that has been said on this thread. Pennsylvania has taken an aggressive stance on pickups pulling trailers in the past few years. They have found an easy revenue source.
I afraid eventually you will wind up in front of a district justice with your letter and a ticket, and I don’t see the PennDOT letter holding water.
The PSP Motor Carrier Safety Officers are known to be targeting trucks pulling trailers, dualy’s are particularly susceptible to being stopped & checked. Federal law is trailers over 10,000 GVW require class A CDL. Here my advice from many years of dealing with the PSP & MCSAP officers here in PA:
If the trailer is over 10,000 pounds GVW
1. Have a class a CDL Class A license
2. Make sure you have an up to date DOT physical card
3. Make sure your rig has a fire extinguisher and triangular flares
4. Have 4 tie downs on each piece of equipment
5. License the pickup as a combination vehicle – The total GVWR of truck and trailer
a. 9900 GVW pickup + 14,000 GVW trailer = 23,900 Total GVW - $405.00 for the pickup Class 8 registration + $27.00 for the trailer registered over 10,000#.
Then just smile and breathe easily when the PSP pulls you aside to check you and your rig.

[Ken Majeski]

Well... This whole thing Ticks me off and some changes need to be made.

Here you buy enough license for your trailer and the load it is to carry... And the truck is a separate entity and needs only enough license for what it weighs and what it carries... This is the Only Sensible way to do it...

So what do you guys do if you hook your trailer to a different truck...??? How about if you rent a U-Haul Trailer...??? What if you borrow your Buddies Trailer...??? How about a trailer behind a Motor Home or an Auto...???

What if I came to your state with my Personal Legal Here trailer... Do I have to stop at the state line and get new plates...???

More people need to take this stuff to court and only then will they realize how Messed up their system is... We are dealing with Pickup Trucks and Utility Trailers... Not over the Road Semi Tractors...

Here we Need No CDL Unless the total is over 26,000 and if the Tow Vehicle is over 26,000 and the trailer over 10,000 then you need a class B or a class A.

If You are in Interstate commerce (Haulling to Sell or for Hire) and over 10,000 total you Do need a Medical card.

Now another topic.... USDOT Numbers... I got one but don't display it as it would look like I was Commercial.... Now I see when you go to the site to get one you have to put in the name of a Business... They must have got tired of issuing one to every Tom, Dick and Harry that didn't know if he needed one or not...

Oh BTW... The response that Bill got from Penn DOT is the way it is here and the Federal rules agree...

[Tom Marshall Jr.]

Ken: I beleave if you are leagel in YOUR state you are good to go in most all other states. In pa. from 10,001 on up to 80,000 the trailer plate is the same $27.00. But the higher your grose the more you pay for the truck plate. Littel ones up to 3000, $6.oo. next 3001 to 10,000, $12.00. then you are in the big league after that. staying in the first 2 classes saver much grief and you can tow with most anything that is rated for the load. When you try to pull a 10+ trailer without raising your truck lisence is when they see easy money. Tom