Barking up Wrong Tree ?

[Jim Conte]

Reading the many threads that mention Hard Firing, there is a lot of discussion on grates, soot in the flues, exhaust nozzles...those are all important points to check.

The soup gets a might thin when we're arguing about cast vs. sheet steel stacks. What comes after that, the roughness of the sand casting versus the height of the rivet heads ?

Just to point out something obvious that everyone is missing,
The Condition of the Water Side of the boiler. Everyone remembers that a 1/16 " scale coating can waste 25 % of the fuel, right ... The same goes for a heavily rusted surface on the firebox plates. It is all about heat transfer. That takes good contact between the metal and the water, combined with the freedom for the water and rising steam bubbles to flow around the metal parts. Layers of laminated rust are like a shingled roof...the water can't get through, there is no contact. A rough surface kills flow by simple friction.

So, how to keep the boiler from getting heavily rusted and how to have better heat transfer and easier steaming ?

Avoid having your boiler cold and wet ( or even damp ).
This is the main boiler killer.

Avoid using high mineral content water, or if you do have to use less than great water, use treatment to keep from fouling the boiler.

The other reason for using an appropriate treatment is to Passivate the iron and steel surfaces. This means that a self-protective coating is formed on the steel by the action of having a moderately high pH water in contact with it. The ideal pH is around 10.

The pasivated layer is easily over powered by doing something like laying up the boiler wet.

You have to be treating the water in the boiler constantly and continuously within the correct range. It isn't difficult, nowadays, the modern treatments available make it " no Chemistry testing " easy. You just have to be consistent.

Engine operators I know tell me about saving 30 % or more on fuel, and they have plenty of steam and a fast, relatively easy firing up.

[GaarScott]

Jim,

All I can say is that the little 1/2 scale 65hp Case engine my son bought this past July had a pretty hard life prior to us purchasing the engine. Hard in the fact that the prior owners didn't properly lay the boiler up. They apparently never washed the boiler out and left the hand holes in it continuously. This caused premature wastage around the staybolts, but ironically, the plate sheets weren't affected much. There was some God awful amounts of scale stuck to the crown sheet and along the sides of the water side of the firebox and wrapper sheet from what I could see. With a few treatments of LSB8000???? boiler treatment and a couple of thorough boiler washings, the vast majority of the scale is gone and it is really looking pretty good inside. There is no doubt that the inadequate washing of the boiler and removal of hand holes shortened the life of the boiler, but she is still quite sound yet today. Eventually I will replace the staybolts, as they were most affected by the abuse. I won't necessarily blame the prior owners, as they may not have been properly trained on how and what to do. But I know better and do so.

I will post some photos of what it looked like before....and what it looks like now. I will have to do that later, as I don't have any of those photos here at work with me.

Lawrence

[20 Reeves Highwheeler]

Jim Conte;285368]Reading the many threads that mention Hard Firing, there is a lot of discussion on grates, soot in the flues, exhaust nozzles...those are all important points to check.

So, how to keep the boiler from getting heavily rusted and how to have better heat transfer and easier steaming ?

You might consider moving your family, engines and yourself to eastern Montana? There's no firebox deterioration there, with the exception of ash damage over decades if left in.
Gary

[Brian Manning]

I can attest to the advantages of proper water treatment vs fuel economy. 8 years ago when I took over as Chief Engineer on the locomotives the water treatment program being used at the time was terrible. After 30+ years of using HARD water (120-180ppm) scale had taken up shop big time inside the boiler. After changing systems and LOTS of boiler wash's the fuel consumption went from 12,000 liters/week to 8000. Now after re-tubing first the one we went to around 6-7000 liters/week and I'm just finishing up the retube on the other locomtive and expect the same results. The retubes will be paid off in less than 5 years by the economy gained in fuel consumption by ridding the boiler of scale and increasing the heat transfer. BTW the retube is being done as part of the life cycle program (they are 36+ years old) and not due to any part of the water tratment change.

[Jim Conte]

[QUOTE=20 Reeves Highwheeler;285411]You might consider moving your family, engines and yourself to eastern Montana?QUOTE]

Gary,
Had to do a Double-Take when I read the first few words...
Thought you might be "strongly recommending" that I join the " Witness Protection Program" or something. Actually, I'd thought about moving to Montana because I'd driven through a few times when I was in the Navy, stationed in Washington State...Beautiful Country...great folks who live there.
What I really need to do is go to some engine shows there to see if an "eastern boy" can fit in.

Mike Z, you out there, How does that work ?

Jim