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Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets MEP Mobile Electric Power, APU Auxiliary Power Unit and other military surplus generators.

Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets

Eclipse P2 aviation generator


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  #1  
Old 04-06-2008, 11:28 AM
J Tiers J Tiers is offline
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Default Eclipse P2 aviation generator

I have an old Eclipse Aviation P2 generator that I know virtually nothing about. I have some potential uses for it, which would be helped along by even basic info on its output limits.

As far as I know it is 28V 9DC of course) and probably came from a tank, as opposed to an aircraft.

Anyone know about them? I have contract numbers etc, but don't know which item is most relevant.

Thanks


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  #2  
Old 04-06-2008, 04:02 PM
Ed Radtke Ed Radtke is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2

civilian use is a 200 amp welder.you will have to rig a bearing on the front if your going to belt drive it.
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  #3  
Old 04-06-2008, 05:39 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2

The housing on the back make me think it came from an aircraft. I have a Delco P1 which I am told came from B-17's and is a 200 amp output.I would think a P-2 would be a higher output. My Delco P -1 does not have a cooling fan. Most aircraft generators have NO cooling fan. They used "slip stream" cooling. Is your input shaft splined or keyed? If splined I would say your generator is aircraft.

Kent
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  #4  
Old 04-06-2008, 10:23 PM
J Tiers J Tiers is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2

It is keyed.

And, there is already a bearing on the front case, just inboard of the shaft end.
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2008, 12:36 AM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

Reply to old thread: This is a generator from an "APU" or auxillary power unit. It looks just like one I saw on a website (maybe in the U.K.) dealing with warbirds. The suggestion was made on that site that this apu was from a Boeing B-29 Superfortress.

You might ask how I found this info. Answer is that after 10 years of looking, I just picked up an apu from a B-29! After a photo shoot and a little "preflight" tummy rub, I will try to post a few things viz-a-viz my new toy.

Now, my apu is slightly different from the one posted on the U.K. site. The cooling air duct on mine wraps around the generator in the vicinity of the mounting flange. Mine pushes cooling air from the "front" of the generator and out the "back". Your generator ducting, like the U.K. unit, pushes the air in the opposite direction.

It may take some years to get educated about which one is "correct" for a B-29 or are they both "correct". So far, I have found an on-line video of a test run of the apu of a B-29 restoration and its apu is like mine. Frankly, the only difference in the two type I have noticed besides the airflow is the corresponding air duct needed to be a little different too.

I've found two different engine manufacturers, Fairchild and Andover, and suspect I have a lot more to learn. Example: What about the B-50?

A fellow Washingtonian was advertising a B-29 APU engine, sans generator, on Harry's just recently. Maybe you two guys should talk.
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  #6  
Old 01-13-2009, 11:15 PM
J Tiers J Tiers is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

Hi... I thought this thread had gone down into the bucket........

Anyhow, I had acquired the possibly faulty information that the generator was from a tank engine. A number of them were radial engined, and had similar parts to aircraft radials.
Aircraft would have had a spline shaft, this has a key.

The APU idea is different, perfectly possible, why not? I googled the type, and all I found was a reference to a PBY for sale in the Carribean, which had a couple extra generators with it in the spare parts kit.... I suspect there were a number of uses for the design, differing in shaft and venting details, but with same basic design.

I'd be happy if I knew the output rating, all I know is the volts, nothing on the current rating.
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  #7  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:37 PM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

My mistake, perhaps, since I was thinking that your's had a splined shaft. I don't know what type of shaft my APU generator has. That project of mine is on the back burner as I try to gather more technical information.......I just wanted to get possession of the thing for now.

I believe that your generator probably has a 200 amp rating, however, I'm not certain. Boeing B-29 aircraft (WWII) apparently had 6 total 200 amp generators mounted on the various engines as well as one on the APU. I don't know if the generators were all the same or if they differed.

I'm still trying to learn about the regulator and metering equipment for the B-29 APU as I gradually piece together a working demonstrator unit.

I'd like to put together a "complete" package kind of in honor of my Dad, Ben J. Werner, who was the flight test engineer on #1 XB-29 for Boeing.

He told me that he never liked the things, though. XB-29, as an experimental aircraft, generally crewed no tailgunner or rear compartment personnel to stop and start the thing so Dad had to crawl back through the pressurized tube over the bomb bays to do it. Since it was started and run before takeoff, then stopped for normal flight and then started and run for landing also, there was a lot of crawling around through the aircraft for a guy who was very busy already!

I hope to learn a lot more about these things as time goes on.
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  #8  
Old 01-15-2009, 10:42 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

I think BUT AM NOT SURE, that I remember from an OLD surplus catalog that the P-2 was 300 amps. Also I do not know if the P-2 is like my P-1 but the generator armature shaft is hollow with internal splines at the end opposite the mounting flange. The way I found this out was my generator has a small nut on that end . I remove the nut and found that my splinded input shaft could be removed from the generator.

Kent
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  #9  
Old 01-19-2009, 01:05 AM
J Tiers J Tiers is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

Well, I found a pic of the B-29 APU, and sure-enough, there is the same basic generator on the back side. And lot of engine on the front side...... At 200A that would be 5600W output, probably more like 6500 input, or something over 8 HP.

Pics found here

http://www.enginehistory.org/G&jJBro...CAF%20Midland/
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  #10  
Old 01-19-2009, 09:50 AM
J Tiers J Tiers is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

Looking more closely at the tag in the picture of the control, I see the engine appears to be rated 10 HP @3200 RPM.

That fits reasonably well with a 5600W rating (200A/28V), plus inefficiencies and some overload capability. It also gives a 3200 RPM operating point.

Much more information than I had previously.

The APU in the pictures has no connections to the field, so evidently the control box for the generator is missing or at least not shown.

The cooling duct is not connected, it evidently comes from the engine fan to the drive end of the generator, exiting to the rear. That is opposite to this one, which has a fan that would pull OUT the front, and pull IN via the duct visible in the picture I posted, which is at the back (brushes) end.
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  #11  
Old 01-19-2009, 10:31 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

J Tiers,

I may have ask this before but WHERE in the SHO-ME state are you? I am about 20 miles North or Springfield.

Kent
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  #12  
Old 01-19-2009, 11:57 PM
J Tiers J Tiers is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

I am just barely outside St Louis city.
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  #13  
Old 01-20-2009, 11:49 AM
Carter Carter is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

B29 flight handbook pix of the APU. Years ago I used one of these APUs to make a DC welder using a variable reostat in the field for voltage control. It worked great except it had to run on 130 Oct. AV gas which was only available at larger airports, othetwise the plugs and valves would gum up with carbon and lead. Cooling air was drawn in around the cyl. jugs and from the generator through the black duct connected to the front fan shroud and exhausted through the side of the aircraft (item 12 on pic 2) with the cumbustion exhaust gasses.Carter


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  #14  
Old 01-20-2009, 10:11 PM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

Carter has posted pages of a unit that is just like mine! Nice wiring diagram! It is the best thing I've seen so far.

My Dad once said he had an original B-29 manual that he was going to leave me but I think he may have donated it sometime before he passed away because I have inherited quit a few original Boeing bomber manuals but not a B-29, so far. He passed away a few months back and I won't get over that soon but I am going to get an APU together even if he didn't like the things!

He and a couple of pilots picked a brand new B-29 off an early assembly line and flew it back to Seattle where it became a high altitude research plane testing electrical equipment, propellers, high altitude photography, night-time aerial photography, and every other thing you can think of related military flight.

I have one of the "horn buttons" from that plane, "Noah's Arc", named after the Chief of Flight Test, I believe.

With the help of your diagram, I may be able to figure out how to purchase the correct stuff to make a regulator system with original stuff. Great !! I hope this is of interest to the fellow he started the thread. Thanks
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Old 01-21-2009, 08:53 AM
Carter Carter is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

"With the help of your diagram, I may be able to figure out how to purchase the correct stuff to make a regulator system with original stuff. "


If you need a clearer one to help in your work, let me know and I'll scan and print a copy to send to you.
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  #16  
Old 01-21-2009, 10:03 AM
J Tiers J Tiers is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

That would be good for me also, if you don't mind.....

It's interesting, according to that diagram, the field is apparently not controlled by the "voltage regulator"...... it appears to be just connected across the main outputs. It isn't clear what the regulator even does.

I feel pretty sure that the heavy line directly under the letter "A" is not correct and should not be there.
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  #17  
Old 01-21-2009, 12:05 PM
Rick Harvey Rick Harvey is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

Hi
I am working on the Hueys and the starter/generator is very similar in size, and it is rated at 200 amps On it the "A" is plus. The "E" is negative, and the little ones, one is the field, which they are showing, going to a "carbon pile voltage regulator". There are 3 different regulators that will work with it. I also have the base which does the carbon pile and also the newest solid state one. The cream one replaces the base and is a one piece one.

I live in Old Mines and would be glad to come look at it and help you get it working. I have the Huey's starter/generator (200 amp), and also the 300 amp generator, if you want to see them.

You also can get a newer regulator, which I see on ebay on occasion, It is a cream colored one Print the schematic on here, and I can show you how to streemline it to be a simple circuit. I would love to get a good copy of that schematic. It looks almost identical to the Huey's circuit.

"rickchris91 at centurytel . net", is the email. Put it back together and contact me, and I will give you a phone #

Rick
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  #18  
Old 01-21-2009, 12:29 PM
Rick Harvey Rick Harvey is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

Here is the new gold regulator which plugs in the oldest style base (carbon pile regulator). Also the cream color solid state (2 of them shown here), in the Huey.
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VR-11138.jpg   P1011233s.jpg  
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  #19  
Old 01-21-2009, 06:02 PM
Carter Carter is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

I'l make and send as many copies as you guys want, just PM me with requests and mailing info please and I'll send them out to all that want them, just as long as it's not hundreds of requests, then I'll have to charge postage.
Carter
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:35 PM
J Tiers J Tiers is offline
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Default Re: Eclipse P2 aviation generator

Rick.... Thanks, but I just have the generator, and needed an estimate of the output power to size an engine to go with it. I have an 8 HP Kohler which may be about right, although I think the speed will need a pulley ratio change.

It will all be on a genset cart with that and a 4 KW Winco. I figure to select which is clutched-in and how it is controlled and connected depending on whether I need battery charging, welding, or 120/240 V AC.

As for regulator, I will probably roll my own... Day job is power electronics, so I don't expect issues there. The P2 is known to work, I spun it with a smaller motor and checked for output etc. It has also already had new bearings put in, the old ones had been in there a loooonnng time and were stiff and suspect.

Thanks though for the offer.

One issue is brushes... These look good for some time yet, but I can see a possible future problem. My supply of miscellaneous brushes is not including anything that big. Sourcing in future could be difficult, does anyone have a source?

Carter: Thanks.... I will PM. I had envisioned scanned to PDF as being fine, but a hard copy is extra cool.
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