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A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever


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  #21  
Old 09-23-2008, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

You can always try Michigan instead of MN...
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  #22  
Old 09-23-2008, 02:34 PM
GaarScott GaarScott is offline
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Dan,

Doesn't the shop your having the boiler rebuilt at have an inspection process set up similar to what we do hear with 'R' stamp work with a seperate AI to inspect boiler work? And if so, don't they have to provide calculations to support the work being done? And if that is the case, you have it licked for Minnesota...I would think...or any state that would want to inspect your European engine designs. This isn't rocket science, someone somewhere has had to put pen to paper to prove mathimatically that the boilers are sound to carry XXX pressure. I would think that would suffice any boiler inspection agency.

Obviously they are not A.S.M.E. designed boilers and they should not be goverened by our rules...but by the rules that were established to design/build those boilers. Obviously it isn't an inferior design...they withstand as much if not more PSI than most of our boilers operate at. So it has to be sound philosophy...just foreign. Best of luck no matter where she lands once she crosses the pond.

Lawrence
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  #23  
Old 09-23-2008, 05:13 PM
Dan Dyman
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth Vanarsdall View Post
You can always try Michigan instead of MN...
I could try Michigan, but until my wormhole is fixed (It developed a small discharge the last time I used it) and I can do warp factor 9.9 again I'll stay closer to home
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  #24  
Old 09-23-2008, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Well, Michigan does allow traffic to run 70 mph on the expressways........think you can keep up after the hole is plugged???

I could use it to roll my lawn, but when my brother used his Buffalo Springfield steam roller, the cylinder cocks left a burn mark in the grass & Mom wasn't too pleased... It works great for rolling driveways & grain pads.

Beth
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  #25  
Old 09-23-2008, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

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Originally Posted by GaarScott View Post
Dan,

Doesn't the shop your having the boiler rebuilt at have an inspection process set up similar to what we do hear with 'R' stamp work with a seperate AI to inspect boiler work? And if so, don't they have to provide calculations to support the work being done? And if that is the case, you have it licked for Minnesota...I would think...or any state that would want to inspect your European engine designs. This isn't rocket science, someone somewhere has had to put pen to paper to prove mathimatically that the boilers are sound to carry XXX pressure. I would think that would suffice any boiler inspection agency.


Obviously they are not A.S.M.E. designed boilers and they should not be goverened by our rules...but by the rules that were established to design/build those boilers. Obviously it isn't an inferior design...they withstand as much if not more PSI than most of our boilers operate at. So it has to be sound philosophy...just foreign. Best of luck no matter where she lands once she crosses the pond.

Lawrence
The issues that we are having has to do with the state (MN)requiring a paper trail back to the early 20th century, I have to provide the original code of construction for the boilers so that it can be compared to the US code?, this code was based on British Standard 2790 , I am trying to get a copy of this standard, easier said than done I think..
also,
I think that anyone who has a brain in their heads will realise that the construction of UK boilers leaves nothing lacking, those who have seen the boilers and the thickness of the plates are left in no doubt that the boilers are strong enough to withstand very high pressures, even our BI's were impressed, but they need to cover their behinds, hence the reason for all the rigmarole,
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  #26  
Old 09-23-2008, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Dan,
As you know, I think that engine would look pretty good in Iowa. Looks great!
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  #27  
Old 09-23-2008, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Personally I think that engine would look great anywhere, but then again I am biased, Right now my number one concern is getting the money together to bring her across the big blue yonder, the last 2 years has been nothing but bills, bills, bills, as it stands now it might not be going anywhere!
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  #28  
Old 09-23-2008, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

"Bills?" Welcome to life!!

I'm sure the Port will survive without a new friend!

Beth
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  #29  
Old 09-24-2008, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Dyman View Post
The issues that we are having has to do with the state (MN)requiring a paper trail back to the early 20th century, I have to provide the original code of construction for the boilers so that it can be compared to the US code?, this code was based on British Standard 2790 , I am trying to get a copy of this standard, easier said than done I think..
Dan:

The BS Standards can be purchased on-line, but you need to know that:

BS 2790: 1992

http://www.standardsdirect.org/stand...view_1239.html

is superceded by:

BS EN 12953-3:2002

http://www.standardsdirect.org/stand...iew_10001.html

Note the comments at the bottom of each page regarding which sections are replaced etc etc. Also note the previous standards that are replaced by BS 2790: 1992, they go right back to the start of the British Standards with BS 10.

Hope this helps. Prices are fairly high, but that's the same for all of us here as well.

If you need help with getting hold of them, give us a shout, we'll be pleased to assist. The email address to enquire is:

quotes@standardsdirect.org

The people doing your boiler will have to issue a formal test certificate, which 'should' be acceptable world-wide.

Peter
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  #30  
Old 09-24-2008, 02:12 AM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaarScott View Post
Dan,

Doesn't the shop your having the boiler rebuilt at have an inspection process set up similar to what we do hear with 'R' stamp work with a seperate AI to inspect boiler work? And if so, don't they have to provide calculations to support the work being done?
Lawrence
Lawrence:

That would be the case if it was a new design, and all 'new design' boilers have to be manufactured to a code of practice and design rules.

However, when making a 'replacement' boiler, the rules are slightly eased, as long as the boilermaker can show that the original design and construction was 'fit for purpose' and that the replacement is built to the same or better standards of material and construction.

I believe also that inspections are carried out as construction progresses so that any parts which are not visible on the finished boiler are checked as the parts go together, and that materials used have to have Certificates of Conformity from the supplier(s) to give traceability.

Finally it has to have a full inspection and hydraulic test at its proof pressure.

We are very fortunate in having a good number of boiler repair/manufacturing shops in the UK, bearing in mind the relatively small number of boilers that are made/repaired each year.

Peter
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  #31  
Old 09-24-2008, 07:15 AM
GaarScott GaarScott is offline
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Peter,

What you have described sounds quite similar to our own 'R' stamp work, which was the point I was trying to get at. Not sure why Dan is running into so many problems, I'm extremely disappointed that this is the case. I may upset a few folks at the state level for my comment, but that is how I feel about it...and Dan knows it, as I've told him so.

Lawrence
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  #32  
Old 09-24-2008, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaarScott View Post
Peter,

What you have described sounds quite similar to our own 'R' stamp work, which was the point I was trying to get at. Not sure why Dan is running into so many problems, I'm extremely disappointed that this is the case. I may upset a few folks at the state level for my comment, but that is how I feel about it...and Dan knows it, as I've told him so.

Lawrence
Lawrence:

I suspect most of our processes are all based on very similar beginnings!

It may sort itself out once Dan has the copies of the BSI Standards, and the test certificate has been issued.

Peter
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  #33  
Old 09-24-2008, 09:05 AM
Marshall8hp Marshall8hp is offline
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Dyman View Post
The issues that we are having has to do with the state (MN)requiring a paper trail back to the early 20th century, I have to provide the original code of construction for the boilers so that it can be compared to the US code?, this code was based on British Standard 2790 , I am trying to get a copy of this standard, easier said than done I think..
also,
I think that anyone who has a brain in their heads will realise that the construction of UK boilers leaves nothing lacking, those who have seen the boilers and the thickness of the plates are left in no doubt that the boilers are strong enough to withstand very high pressures, even our BI's were impressed, but they need to cover their behinds, hence the reason for all the rigmarole,
Dan, did "your man" ever contact "my man" and if so was it of any help?
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  #34  
Old 09-24-2008, 09:07 AM
Marshall8hp Marshall8hp is offline
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

I can help you with a boiler drawing Dan, if it is of any use. MS&Coy star crown box for 180 PSI....... Got it electronically as well.
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  #35  
Old 09-24-2008, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Came across this book reference while looking for standards information, note the paragraph at the bottom, describing the "international standard that facilitates global trade and commerce."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Evolution of the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code
J. Pressure Vessel Technol. -- August 2000 -- Volume 122, Issue 3, 242 (5 pages)
DOI:10.1115/1.556180
June Ling, ASME Associate Executive Director, Codes and Standards
Three Park Avenue, New York, NY 10016-5990
This paper describes the evolution of the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code from its inception in 1911 to the year 2000. It begins with the need of State government to protect its citizenry from the growing frequency of boiler explosions to its current stature as an international standard that facilitates global trade and commerce. A description of the major milestones in code development is provided.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also note that it is pre the Medina explosion, I believe that some of this would have been revised since 2000.

Peter
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  #36  
Old 09-25-2008, 01:00 AM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall8hp View Post
Dan, did "your man" ever contact "my man" and if so was it of any help?
Hello My friend, Nope, I dont believe he did contact "your man" infact I dont believe he followed up on anything I provided, one has to wonder why
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  #37  
Old 10-07-2008, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

thought you all might like to revisit the guts of a Garrett boiler


Last edited by Dan Dyman; 10-07-2008 at 06:53 PM. Reason: dud link
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  #38  
Old 10-07-2008, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

I wondered where or if there any through stays on crown sheet? Seem the odd design.
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  #39  
Old 10-08-2008, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

greysteam24hp,

The curvatures in the crownsheet give it the needed strength so there is no need for staybolts. This is most likely one of the key areas that stumped Minnesota in signing off on Dan's and his brothers engine...they don't know how to calculate the safe MAWP...my assumption and from conversations I've had with Dan on this particular problem.

Actually, this design isn't so terribly far off from our own Morris Tube (corrugated looking fire tube) design we use in forced fired return flue power plant boilers.

Lawrence
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  #40  
Old 10-08-2008, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: A Thing of Beauty is a Joy Forever

If it is 34594 then it was sent from the works on 4 Sept 1924.

In 1910 this would have cost around 470 pounds so in 1924 around 600. An apprentice at the time would have been paid around 5 shillings or 1/4 pound for a 54 hour week.

The company was in decline at the time and delivered 185 items as opposed to nearly 700 in 1911-12. Around half were portables or stationaries.

I have the book on Garretts with all the data of sizes, nos, and types of engine, wagon bus and truck.

My father's uncle was a foreman in the Long Shop and certainly helped build this roller.

Trevor
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