International / McCormick Deering M type

[deverett]

Hi all

I look at pictures of the International M type 1-1/2hp and the McCormick Deering M type 1-1/2hp and they both look the same except one is ignitor fired and the other is spark ignition.

Can anyone tell me if there are any other differences and was there any tie-up betwen the two companies for the manufacture of these engines.

Reason for asking? I'm interested in building a 1/2 scale version marketed as the International M type.

Thanks,

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Tom Martin]

They are the same engine, because they are the same company. When IHC and McCormic-Deering merged there were two existing dealer networks for several years, and the engines were marked according to which dealer network was selling them. Whether an IHC McC/D M is ignitor or sparkplug fired depends on when it was made.

[John Hamilton]

According to Cyrus McCormick in his book "The Century of the Reaper", the McCormick-Deering name was introduced in 1923. Earlier engines had been International.

In 1902 the International Harvester Company was announced. This was the merger of McCormick and Deering and both brands were continued. Often both brands were located in the same community and appeared to compete but actually did not. Remember Titan and Famous names? One was McC and the other Deering and seemed to compete.

In 1918 the government forced the company to combine the dealers setting the stage for the combined name. After that time they could have used either name. 1918 was the first year of the M. All according to Cyrus.

[deverett]

Thanks to you Tom and John for your replies. They have cleared up my misunderstanding.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Andrew Mackey]

All M engines were ignitor fired until 1923, That year the hi-trnsion ignition with the WICO EK mag was introduced. 1918 and some 1919 engines had the understrike ignitor. It, having only 1 bearing, wore out quickly. Due to the poor service record, it was replaced in 1919 with the 2 bearing overshot type. The 2 types did not have interchangeable ignition parts, due to their design. The cost of retro fitting the ignition system was almost prohibitive - To retro fit a 3 HP M with the nescessary parts (cam, camshaft, complete ignitor, trip rod. trip eccentric, trip follower, misc hardware) cost $119, back in 1920 The entire engine new was only $151 I purchased two IHC 3 HP M engines many years ago. They were lawn ornaments for a local business owner. His father owned a tannery in Newark NJ, and had used the 2 engines to run the factory. The first, a 1919 undershot ignitor engine, was used for a year, and the second engine was then purchased to lesson the load on the first. The second engine was bought in mid 1920, and had the overshot ignitor. The tanning company wanted to retro fit the first engine, with the newer ignition system, but when they got the price - forget it! The 2 engines were used until 1947, when the tannery was electrified. The engines were removed to the owners' front yard, and were painted lime green at some point before I found them in 1986. I purchased them that year, and restored them to operating condition. I wrote to IHC about them, asking when they were built, and about a month later received a reply. The 1919 is the 100th of the type built in 1919, and the 1920 was built later in 1920. At that time IHC still had some corporate records, because they still had the info on the ignition change request on the 1919 engine! About 2 months later I asked IHC for a copy of the records, I was told they no longer had them, as they were cleaning out all the old business records. They did send me a copy of the owners book for the 1919 though!
Andrew

[Tom Martin]

Andrew, you're a little off on some of your info. The first M sparkplug engines had American Bosch rotary magnetos, and later engines used the WICO EK, unless the Bosch was ordered. At one time I had an overstrike ignitor engine, one with the Bosch and one with the WICO.