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Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP?


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Old 01-01-2009, 10:57 PM
Dan Donaldson Dan Donaldson is online now
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Default Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP?

The Smolik Brother's big M. Rumely has been mentioned in several threads regarding whether it is a 36 or 40 hp engine. Maybe the attached pictures can help identify it's true identity. From what I understand the difference between the two engines are very subtle and I do not claim to know either way. I have been told that the manor in which the exhaust piping attaches to the cylinders is one way to distinguish between the two.

I welcome any comments or insight that may shed some light to identifying the horse power of this engine.
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Smolik's Rumely 1.JPG   Smolik's Rumely 2.JPG   Smolik's Rumely 3.JPG   Smolik's Rumely 4.JPG  
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:06 PM
Dan Donaldson Dan Donaldson is online now
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

Here are a few more pictures of the Smolik Brother's M. Rumely engine.

Please note the number of tubes. It has been stated that the 40 hp engines have a couple more tubes than the 36 hp engines.

Note the dry bottom boiler. I have heard that 36 hp Rumely engine have wet bottom boiler and the 40 hp engines have dry bottoms.

Any thoughts?
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Smolik's Rumely 5.JPG   Smolik's Rumely 6.JPG   Smolik's Rumely 7.JPG  
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:33 PM
LundMachineWorks LundMachineWorks is offline
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

One difference not noted is this boiler has an ellipisodial steam dome head, where listed 36 boilers have a flat steam dome head.
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

Dan & Jeff,

Does that boiler have part of a new barrel? The butt strap is gone from the barrel, but on the smokebox??

Beth
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:03 AM
Eric M. Eric M. is offline
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

Beth, I can see that the boiler barrel seam is on the opposite side from the smokebox seam. Perhaps Rumely rolled the barrel and smokebox separately?
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

Does anyone have Rumely catalogs from the 1911-15 era. it should be mentioned in there what the HP is. and thats the black and white/carved in stone you go on.
im pretty sure the 40 HP is a myth thats gradually got bigger like a snow ball rolling down a hill. i think this is the 3rd thread in a year asking about it. its kind of like the Averys being called a 120, or 140. it sounds good and people try to justify it but they were only rated 90hp from the factory. the late 200lb ones were designated a '40' in there catalogs. all the later Case engines bump up 2-5 Boiler hp but no one calls them by the bigger number. If someone can find a 40 Rumely in print thats cool, but im pretty sure its not going to happen. because its been hashed out many times on here but nothing concrete was presented.
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

I dont know... I remember old boys saying, "Rumely never built a 40hp engine... only the 36hp", but that's not cast in bronze either. I think Colin is on the right path with someone coming up with a factory catalog. Catalogs usually settle it.

I've seen three different steam domes on 32hp Reeves Canadian Special boilers... but they are all 32hp Reeves Canadian Special boilers.
Gary
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:30 AM
Advance Rumely Universal Advance Rumely Universal is offline
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

i have a 1912 M RUMELY catalog and it shows a 36hp as the biggest, 7.75/14 double cyl, 84diam rear wheel with a 30inch face,52diam front wheel with a 20 inch face, they show water bottom boilers for this year, hears something strange they show 88 flues for the 36hp and 77 flues for the30hp and 25hp engines , i count 77 flues in the picture ?
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:12 AM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

ARU,
I'm no mathemetician, like our other Gary K, but I counted the same as you?
Gary
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:15 AM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

Im sticking to the 40myth. Why you mite ask? Because thats what Ed & Ray told me it was.And i have no reason to question that.So its a 40 untill proven other wise.
It would be nice to get to the bottom of this some day.Its kinda like how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? The world may never know.
Rob
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilpullman View Post
Im sticking to the 40myth. Why you mite ask? Because thats what Ed & Ray told me it was.And i have no reason to question that.So its a 40 untill proven other wise.
Rob
hi Rob. This is why myths cant hold up. Im going to tell you becaue my dads told me the later 110s have have 38bhp and should be called 130Hp because they carried 175lbs. Is it fair/justifyable to start this myth?
Dad remembers Tom Mclenan(guy he got the bulk of his 110 parts from in BC) trying to start up the 40hp Rumely 35 years ago. i think he had one of those later boilers at the time.
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:00 PM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

I too would like to see it in writing to either dispute it or back it up. Surely someone on here has either the yearly catalogs, or even better, the Rumely parts books? A lot of times they'll tell you way more than the catalogs will.

Parts books, anyone, anyone? Let's put this to bed once and for all!

Mike
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

I dont know anything about Rumely's but I have a question. I noticed the rear spokes are flat and round in front, is this common with Rumely's or was this engine pieced together from parts?
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

I have what I believe to be a 1913 Rumley catalog and at that time the largest engine offered was 25 hp. In 1913(?) the only 25 hp was a single. They also offered a 20 hp in both single and double. This catalogs includes oil pulls.

I also have a 1909 catalog. that lists the 36 hp as the largest engine with a 7 1/2 x 14 and 88 flue boiler. Same specifications as in the 1912 catalog mentioned by AdRumUniv.

On point for consideration is between 1909 and 1913 what they called a 20hp remained a 20hp engine for the entire time period. Same for the 25 hp, it was never was uprated. The boiler sizes changed a little, but the bore x stroke for each HP rating is what remained constant. So; if they did not up rate the other sizes it seems unlikely the 36 was uprated and if so it would have been after 1909 and then down rated back by 1912.

One apology for my data. I don't see any years on the Rumley catalogs only pen written notes.

I suspect what really happened is some guy decide to PAINT 40hp on his Rumley and POed the other 36 owners. And think about it - why should one 36 owner play 2nd fiddle to another 36?

Last edited by Peter; 01-02-2009 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

Eric,

You are correct that the strap is on the right side (couldn't see it on my home monitor). Does anyone have an explanation for such construction?

Thanks
Beth
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20 Reeves Highwheeler View Post
ARU,
I'm no mathemetician, like our other Gary K, but I counted the same as you?
Gary

Me a mathematician . . . I don't think so! I found another use for the fingers & toes that God gave us!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I counted 76 tubes? There's 5 rows of 8 tubes = 40. Two rows of 7 = 14, two rows of 6 = 12, and two rows of 5 = 10. (40 + 14 + 12 + 10 = 76 tubes.)

I didn't count the tubes like Lou Costello counted the rabbits.

Bud Abbott showed Lou Costello a picture of all the rabbits he caught last winter.

Costello said, there's 876 rabbits.

Bud Abbott said, how'd you count them so fast?

Costello said, he counted the legs and divided by four!


Gary K
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Old 01-02-2009, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

I was wondering how did Rumely come up with there hp rateings on steam engines? Was it boiler size/engine size/or a combination of both? Another question i have is.Lets say you have a 36hp steam engine.What would it take to gain 4hp and make it a 40hp?It seems to me that it would be pretty easy to gain that 4hp.Did manufactures have any tricks up there sleeves to do that?
This 36hp vr 40hp debate has got me thinking. And yes it needs to be put to bed.And in all honestly it doesnt matter what the outcome is because wether or not its 36 or a 40 its a big engine no mater how you look at it.
Rob
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

I count 76 tubes as well. 5 rows of 11 tubes (going down), and then 21 others. What gives?
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

I said I wasn't a very good mathemetician. I really didn't count, I just kind of scanned and decided there weren't 88 flues inside that firebox. Strangely, the catalog is long one "hole" as well? And it is quite a bit short of what the "40hp" is supposed to have.

There may not be any added mechanical advantage, to make a 40 out of a 36? Same size firebox and number of flues? The most common way of boosting horsepower was to add operating pressure. Reeves did that with their Canadian Specials by adding 25psi operating pressure. Avery did it with their undermounts... 22hp, 30hp at 150psi and 30hp Special at 175psi, and 40hp at 200psi. All with the same bore and stroke. But these are mentioned in their catalogs. Until someone posts the Rumely "hp boost" I'll remain in the skeptic's column. Many different engines used different driver wheels/spoke arrangements. The Advance 40 had different wheels, Case, Reeves, others had round spokes, or flat straps, cast iron wheel and grouters, or steel strap with cast grouters. It shouldn't change the horsepower, I wouldn't think? So, I'm still in the skeptic's column with the big Rumely, and it IS A BIG engine. Gary
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:40 PM
Mike McKnight Mike McKnight is offline
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Cool Re: Smolik Brother's M. Rumely - 36 or 40 HP ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilpullman View Post
And in all honestly it doesnt matter what the outcome is because wether or not its 36 or a 40 its a big engine no mater how you look at it.
Rob
Don't forget, in addition to being a "big" engine, it's a COOL engine, too! I've had a chance to run one of those big muthas around, and it's an experience I won't soon forget! Be proud of what it is, no matter WHAT it actually is....there ain't many of 'em around.

Mike
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