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Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil


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  #1  
Old 02-23-2009, 09:44 PM
Nazrat Nazrat is offline
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Default Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

Looking at one locally. "Kohler 60kw 3-phase gen set with anti-freeze in the oil pan (probably head gasket). 1980 vintage, 965 hours, Hercules (White) 298
cu in D3000T turbo Diesel, with electronic "Decision Maker". Kohler
model 60RHOZ81 with complete shop manual set."

Any info on this unit and my troubles? Are these prone to cracked heads or head-gasket problems? I assume that is isn't reconnectable to 120/240 single phase?

Good unit? Any info on fuel consumption?

Thanks,
Tad
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  #2  
Old 02-23-2009, 11:58 PM
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EricWood EricWood is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

Look on the right side of the block, at the head gasket line. See if there are any coolant stains about midway, on the block. The military MEP-005 used the D298ER, and many of them passed a little coolant at this point until they got warmed up. I thought maybe the military just got a good "deal" from a contractor, but I had sent more than one head out for milling/ warping inspection. All were good. Some did it,some didn't. Some leaked very bad (small capillary running leak) until you put some load on it.

I would suspect head gasket, but check the oil cooler too, if it has one.


eric
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:54 AM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

Any idea if it ran with the antifreeze in the oil pan? That would really be worse news with a good likelyhood that the bearings and possibly the crankshaft was damaged. A test of oil pressure while running plain water would be the minimum I would do before tearing into the engine. It would probably be better to open up the bottom end and plasitgauge the bearing clearances, but if it's got good pressure and no knocks and no history of running with this problem, it will save time and money in the short run to just go after the leakage.

A small number of engines have a reputation for seeping oil along the head gasket line and some mechanics use a coating of Permatex #2 or similar non hardening gasket sealant on both sides of the head gasket (with the exception of the fire ring around each cylinder) to stop this. Perhaps the worst offender I know of was/is the D318 CAT head which has ferrules and rubber grommets on every liquid passage through the head/block joint, but still manages to seep oil if not sealed with gasket sealer.

Also very possible if coolant was ignored or it was city water cooled, that there might be cavitation pitting damage to the cylinder sleeves (if it has sleeves). Hours are too low for this type of damage, but just to make you aware there could be more expensive problems than just a head gasket.
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Old 02-25-2009, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

Assuming I get it back here, I'll do that test. I'll change the oil, fill it with water and start it. If the genset has oil pressure (good bearings) and it settles down without much smoke (good turbo bearings) I'll get a head-gasket. It not, I'll dig in and see what's what. Might just part it out.

Thanks for the advice.

-Tad
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:42 AM
Nazrat Nazrat is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

Well, it's home. What a beast. Close to 5,000lbs on the trailer it is mounted to. The good news is that it has a 12-lead generator end so it should be reconnectable to 120/240 instead of the 120/208 3-phase that it is setup for now. If nothing else I could part it out and probably break-even. It has a nice block and coolant heater setup, good turbo, injector pump, control system, etc. It is missing one of the side panels, oh well.



Once the snow clears I'll pull the panels off and take some pictures. It's not moving right now anyway as it's pointed up-hill and in the snow.

Once it warms up a little bit I'll be doing the test recommended: change the oil, start it and check for oil pressure.

-Tad
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:29 PM
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Tom Marshall Jr. Tom Marshall Jr. is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

While you have the oil drained out, fill the cooling system to the top. borrow a pressuer tester and pump the system to the cap pressuer. watch for it to drop and watch the oil pan drain for water comming out. if you have any amount of water comming out take the pan off to see where it is comming from. Tool rental places have cooling testers, or friends who work on diesels. Tom
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

Good idea. I'll look for a cooling system pressure tester.

It doesn't show well in that pic, but the thing is HUGE:



I'm rethinking it's ultimate home.

-Tad
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

Few more pics of the gen-zilla:







Got it moved out of the driveway too which should get me some breathing room with the missus.

-Tad
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Old 03-07-2009, 10:46 AM
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Billy J Shafer Billy J Shafer is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

You should have the oil cooler checked before you take the engine apart. Bad seals or cracked core will pump coolant into the oil. If I remember correctly Hercules had a problem with oil coolers on some models. I have some manuals and will see what I can find out.
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Old 03-07-2009, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

Tad,

If you ever plan on using the coolant heater, relocate it, and turn it so it is upright. Hot coolant should come out the top, and needs to enter the block at a higher point than the return coolant comes back to it.

Also, if you keep it/use it, plumb it with silicone heater hose--will last much longer.

eric
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Old 03-07-2009, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

You beat me to it Eric. I noticed the block heater was mounted wrong,but had to leave for a job.
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Old 03-07-2009, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

Good info on the coolant heater. It's an interesting unit. It is wired (appears to be factory spliced wires) to a block heater as well. The block heater isn't visible in the photos. It's screwed into the top of the tee that is connected to the cooling hose on the block. So the path is: coolant out of the head and into the coolant heater. Out of that and into a tee that has the block heater threaded into the top. Out of that tee and into the block.

I disconnected the oil cooler and threaded in an air-fitting and ball valve. I pressurized it to 120psi for an hour and it held pressure.

While that was being tested I sucked out the old oil. It didn't appear to have any coolant in it. Hrm. So I added fresh oil. Then I started adding coolant. Once I filled it to the water pump level coolant started leaking out of the water pump. Hrm again. I filled it to the top, then connected some temp fuel hoses and tried to start it. Bingo. Started right up. Very fast in fact.

I wonder if it shut down because of low coolant rather than something else, and the coolant was leaking outside instead of inside. Hrm.

I do know that I need a water pump. What's my best bet? Google isn't helping me out so far.

I'll post a video of it tonight.

-Tad
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Old 03-07-2009, 09:54 PM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

You're batting a good average on this one so far! Congratulations!

If you cannot find a pump, contact a local autoparts that handles industrial/farm trade and see if they can send your pump to a rebuilder. Our local NAPA has/had contacts with rebuilders so sometimes you can go that route if they don't list a rebuilt pump in their warehouse system.

I have also had some luck replacing the seal in some of them if the main bearing is still good or can be replaced (usually only replaceable with factory kit or if it uses standard ball or tapered roller bearings instead of the unitized "water pump bearing" unit without a separate shaft.

If you attempt to disassemble the pump, make sure you know how it comes apart and use great caution while pressing it apart or pulling the impeller etc. Some pump castings and impellers are quite fragile if you press or pull on them the wrong way. A shop press is great and many times necessary for this kind of job, but you can develop plenty of pressure to ruin things if you push on it wrong. Usually a bearing/shaft can be pressed out of the impeller at the same time as it is being pressed out of the pump housing more safely than simply pulling the impeller off the end with a gear puller. The impeller is supported against the housing all the way around instead of by 2 or 3 spots around the edges where a puller attaches.

I expect your "block heater" in the Tee is some kind of thermostat switch to control the coolant heater. I don't see much reason to have two heaters, but there would be a need to control the external heater.
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Old 03-07-2009, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

My biggest problem with finding one is knowing what to ask for. This is a D300T White Hercules diesel.

I've rebuilt a few water pumps and I might tackle this one but if I can find someone else to do it I'll go that route.

I hadn't thought about the block heater being a thermostat, but it makes much more sense.

-Tad
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Old 03-07-2009, 11:00 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

MSC has a large assortment of water pump type seals in their catalog. They are listed by O.D., I.D., and length.

Kent
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

Like Billy and Eric pointed out, jacket water heater needs to be turned.

120 psi is a little on the high side.

You can get a water pump from Engine Power Source in Charlotte. Get ready, they are proud of them. An alternative would be to pull that one and rebuild it yourself or have it rebuilt.

The control system on those things were the latest and greatest in their day, somewhat troublesome with all the jacks and connections. If it gives trouble, I'd use an ECU, use the existing meters and gages and be happy.

Oil in the coolant would be an oil cooler, coolant in the oil, does this engine have wet liners? If so, I'd suspect cavitation, especially if the cooling system hasn't been properly maintained.
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

I'm happy to report that I can find no evidence of coolant in oil or vice versa. There might be diesel in the oil and I'll be taking apart the fuel pump to check the diaphragm. Then I'll dig into the task of removing the fan and water pump.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

-Tad
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

If you have fuel in your oil, it could also be coming from the injector pump. The following rambling is provided in the case you want to remove the injection pump for repairs.

There are two "cup" seals on the drive shaft of the fuel injection pump. One to hold fuel transfer pump operating pressure in the pump, the other to keep engine oil in crankcase. The bushings in the pump were commonly bronze at one time, and prone to cut-line wear at the lip of the fuel body-side seal. They would then start passing fuel to the crankcase, as noted first usually by a rise on the dipstick. If one rips/tears, you will see a dramatic rise of oil level in the crankcase rather quickly.

Not too hard to change. Cleanliness is the watchword when removing/installng an injector pump. Along with the cup seals, you'll want to get the o-ring that also goes on the shaft, pump base o-ring (if it uses one), and the steel washers that go on the banjo-bolts.

I don't remember on that model if there is an access cover on the front-side of the engine, that can be removed to access the pump driveshaft retaining nut. Othersize, the pump can be removed with shaft in place, its just a little tricker to get the pump back on and massage the cup seals into place. A little oil, and a small, dull pocket screwdriver can be carefully used to coax the first seal into the pump bushing. This is where most folks get into trouble; they either tear the seal, or roll it over forcing the pump onto it.

To remove pump, remove all injector lines and wires from pump. Remove the little timing cover window on the side of the pump body, and rotate until the timing marks line up. Pump can be carefully removed at this point. I always try to store the pump with the drive end up, until ready for reinstall, as the governor flyweights can get dislodged if handled too rough. If the bushing has a deep groove in it, take it to a pump/injector repair shop and have the bushing replaced. When reinstalling, ensure the banjo bolts and the new washers are absolutely clean. I like flush them with electrical contact cleaner just before everything gets tight. I've seen where paint flecks have be caught underneath them, and the power of high pressure fuel can erode a hole right through the washer, like a river cutting a valley.

eric
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

When you say that the oil level will rise quickly, what do you mean? A quart an hour? Day? Minute?

Everything you've said seems to match the pump that I have:
http://tad.grosvenor.org/gallery/d/51909-2/IMG_0337.JPG

I'll pull apart the fuel pump first and then if it is intact I'll check on the injector pump. Is there any trick to timing it when I reinstall it?

Thanks again,
Tad
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Old 03-15-2009, 03:29 PM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
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Default Re: Kohler 60RHOZ81 Turbo Diesel with coolant in oil

The rate of increase on the oil level depends on how bad the leak is. Sometimes a very slow leak will be matched by the oil consumption and noticing that the oil is being diluted will be the only way to save things. Other times, the crankcase oil level can increase rapidly, or even rise when the engine is stopped if the fuel tank level is higher than the leak.

The rotating timing mark in the window on the injection pump is lined up with the stationary mark beside it when the #1 cylinder (next to the radiator) is at TDC compression stroke.

To time the engine before installing the pump (if it has been moved since removing the previously timed injection pump), you need to find TDC on #1. There may be a pointer on the crankshaft pulley or on the flywheel housing or maybe a window on the flange of the engine or flywheel where a timing pin (or a bolt if you don't have one) is inserted and it will drop into a hole in the flywheel as the engine comes up to TDC for #1. You need to turn the engine by hand in some manner as you approach TDC so you can stop exactly at the mark without backing up.

Aligning that pointer is only part of the process, you must also make sure you are on compression stroke by watching the rocker arms of the valves. When you come up to TDC mark, and the valves of #1 cylinder are not opening or closing (there should be clearance between valve and rocker), you are right and you can line up the marks on the pump and install it. If the valves are closing and opening as you come up to the TDC mark, go around another turn and come up to TDC again before installing the pump.

You may want to grease the inside of the pump bushing with a small amount of very light grease or motor oil to ease the installation of the pump without flipping the seal. There is a small tool like a pair of tongs that compresses the seal into the bore of the pump bushing, or use your fingers etc like Eric says.

There is a drive tang on the end of the shaft that engages a slot in the pump rotor, so you may have to rotate the pump slightly to get the tang to drop into the slot. Once you get it on, snug up the nuts on the pump flange and rotate the engine 2 revolutions and come back to TDC again without backing up etc so you take any slack out of the gear train. Again check your timing marks in the pump and adjust as needed before finally tightening the pump down and installing the lines.
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