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Wisconsin V465D no spark


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  #1  
Old 05-03-2009, 11:09 AM
Schultz Schultz is offline
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Default Wisconsin V465D no spark

I'm trying to get a stump grinder running that has a Wisconsin v465D motor, which is an air cooled v4 65hp engine, I think around 1985.

The problem started when a wire connected from the key start switch to the carburetor melted through and then the ignition coil went up in smoke at the same time. After replacing the ignition coil, key switch, and the wire. The engine has no spark at all. Before this it would start just fine.

What does the wire to the carburetor do? What is it connected too, some kind of sensor?

After tracing through the wires to see if I could see anything else that was obvious I found one other wire that is connected to the coil and then connected to some sensor like thing on one of the engine heads. What does this do? Is it an overheating sensor?

Right now the positive of the coil is to ground which is likely why there is no spark. Does anyone have a wiring schematic of this engine?
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Old 05-03-2009, 03:12 PM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

Schultz:

The ignition wiring is simple.

- From the ignition switch, a wire goes to the (+) terminal of the coil.

- From the (-) terminal of the coil, a wire goes to the terminal on the side of the distributor (points).

- From the high tension tower on the coil, an ignition wire goes to the center tower on the distributor.

It is possible that there is supposed to be a ballast resistor in series with the wire between the ignition switch and the coil but if the system is 6 volts, it probably isn't used.

Hope I helped.

Take care - Elden
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Old 05-03-2009, 04:28 PM
Schultz Schultz is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

OK that explains one wire that I hooked up wrong. I put the wire to the side of the distributor to the positive of the coil. Switched it but still didn't start. There is one other wire that I want to double check. Does the wire that comes from the alternator go to the positive or the negative of the coil?

The second thing that I noticed on the coils was the new replacement coil states on the side that it doesn't require an external resistor. The old one states that it requires an external resistor. Do I need to remove this resistor? Where is it?
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Old 05-03-2009, 10:52 PM
bill chasser bill chasser is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

HA HA!!

Nice to know I'm not the only one with electronic problems on their VH's. I have a vemeer 630a with the vh4d which is the 30hp version of yours. I had a wiring meltdown also. The "sensor" you describe as being on the cylinder head tins is either the regulator for the alternator or the rectifier for the ignition module. Both are simliar in size and shape and have premolded plug in terminals. Does this sound right? My guess is the rectifier is fried. Mine fried the regulator and I'm still trying to find the correct one to replace it. Our wisconson parts dealer is gone and parts seem to be drying up fast. If memory served me correctly several years ago either of the parts was in th excess of the $70 range. Let me know it you find a source.

Bill
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:30 AM
Schultz Schultz is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

I have found a good part source for Wisconsin parts, he ships the same day it ordered. This guy seems to be a lot less than any other source I've contacted. I could have saved myself about $30-40 so far if I had started with him. His number is 814-766-3675. He's out of Pennsylvania, sorry but I forgot the business name.
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

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Originally Posted by Schultz View Post
OK that explains one wire that I hooked up wrong. I put the wire to the side of the distributor to the positive of the coil. Switched it but still didn't start. There is one other wire that I want to double check. Does the wire that comes from the alternator go to the positive or the negative of the coil?

The second thing that I noticed on the coils was the new replacement coil states on the side that it doesn't require an external resistor. The old one states that it requires an external resistor. Do I need to remove this resistor? Where is it?
Schultz:

Since I'm not familiar with your engine systems, I have to take a guess. First, the wire from the alternator preferably should not go to the positive lead of the coil. Depending on the type of sytem, you can either go directly to the hot battery post or to the "ign" terminal of the ignition switch.

With a "no resistor" coil, you really should jumper the resistor (if it's there). The resistor, if it is installed, will be somewhere in the wire between the ignition switch and the coil + terminal.

- Use a test light to make sure that, when the ignition switch is turned on, you have voltage at the coil + terminal.
- Remove the distributor cap and, while holding the points open (ignition on) and the test light connected to the coil (-) terminal, check to see if the light lights.
- If it does, with the light still connected to the (-) coil terminal, close the points and see that the light goes out.

If all of that is copacetic, take the coil high tension wire out of the distributor cap center tower and hold it close to the engine block and flick the points open and closed. You should get a nice blue (1/4" minimum) spark every time the points open. If not, and you get a fat spark at the points, the condenser is probably bad.

If all of that tests good, you could have a bad distributor cap or rotor.

Oh, yes - if your Kharma is not balanced, it will never run!

Take care - Elden

Last edited by Elden DuRand; 05-04-2009 at 09:34 AM. Reason: wurdz out
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Old 05-04-2009, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

The wire on the carb turns on the fuel when you turn the key on.
The wire on the head shuts the engine down if the engine overheats.
Rob
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:43 PM
Phil P Phil P is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

Oilpullman knows what he is talking about!

As for the Alternator I would suggest going with a belt driven one.

I was managing my father’s Wisconsin dealership when that engine first came on the market it was the V460D next was the V461D then the 462D and finally the V465D.

Phil P
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:59 PM
Schultz Schultz is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

Thanks guy's all this helps. I'll have a chance to test everything tomorrow.

The main 10 gauge wire on the alternator does goes to the amp-meter first and then to the battery. There is a smaller gauge wire that comes out of a small plastic box on the back of the alternator (maybe a rectifier?). That wire was connected to the coil. I have it connected to the positive right now. If that's not correct let me know.

I wasn't sure how to troubleshoot the coil, condenser and distributor. Thanks for help guys. There isn't much info other than these board on these engines.

I'll let you know if it works out tomorrow.
Tim
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

Schultz,
The owners name is Tim Stein. From what I have gathered from speaking to them, the 5-6 times I've needed parts for either my VH4D or VG4D, they are well supplied, both guy's I've spoken to are mechanics and work on these engines on a daily basis. I've given my Mod # and the part and they seem to know immediately what I was looking for. And I think they're reasonably priced. The last set of rings for my VG4D cost $43 shipped. Ordered on Fri had in hand on Tues..Of course I'm only 100 or so miles away from them!

Gene

PS: Is it Pos ground?
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Last edited by Gene O. Carpenter; 05-05-2009 at 10:32 PM. Reason: Added sentence
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

Thanks Gene on the info.

What do you mean by "Is it Pos ground"?. Or is that something in your signiture?
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

Schultz,
No it's not part of my sig.! I have 3 different VH4 books here and they POS grnd with battery start. So if you disconnected the batt and not knowing this, hooked it back up as you've been doing to just about everything today, then KABLEWIEEEEE.And you let out the magic white smoke..Double ck! Was one of your batt clamps loose and the other you had to open up a little to get it on the batt post?
Gene
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

I didn't notice the battery terminals being any different. After the meltdown occurred, I disconnected the negative side of the battery and rewired the key switch and the coil. However now I'm doubting weather I wired the coil back right. Never removed the positive side.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

If you only disconnected the neg side then I don't think you have to worry about the proper grounding! I threw that in there just in case you had removed both clamps from the batt..
You don't have a wiring diagram/schem for the engine?
I have , didn't realize it was in my Kohler 10RMY62 book. And I WAS WRONG! REPEAT I WAS WRONG! Apparently if the engine has a flywheel or alternator charging system they use the NEG GRND.

Thru the gen head charging and the generator driven distributor use the Pos grnd.. Sorry if I created any confusion there.
Tomorrow when I'm more awake I will scan and post the diagram/schematic for your engine. Would do it now but tired and will have o figure out how to do it..
Hope you read this before you go any further! How can they tell you one thing in the front of book and something else at the back?

Sorta like the time Sears came out with a new Sealed System Repair method and said to read the instructions packed with each new compressor and to follow them closely.. When I did my 1st new method I got all set up and going like blazes. Instructions said "take 3/8" tube pn 1234 and cut 3/8" off long run, proceed to step 4, did that, proceed to step 5, did that..Step 6 if you are replacing "G" series do not cut 3/8" off tube pn 1234..DUH,DUH,DUH! It's a good thing that I was resourceful and was able to finish the job. That misprint was quickly reported and corrected..

Gene
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:25 AM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

Thanks the schematic will be helpful. I didn't get to the grinder last night. It was just too nice outside. I worked in the garden instead, but I did move the grinder from the yard to inside the barn so I can work on it at night after the kids go to bed.
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:46 PM
bill chasser bill chasser is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

Boy Carpenter Im glad you made that correction in time. My vh4d has the internal alt with electronic ing and it is neg ground. I was frantically looking for my wisc manuals to check you on that. Thought well maybe just maybe the 65's were set up differently. Good save!!!
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

Just glad we didn't lose any of the magic white smoke or burn anything up! It's that "flywheel alternator" that makes the difference!

I guess a word to the wise is needed here..Double check and make sure the schematic/diagram ,pertains to your piece of equipment.

I scanned the 2 pages, am going to try to find them so I can attach them and hope they're legible.

Well they came out OK but can't enlarge them any for clarity.. Right click and "save" photo, then open with your photo svc and you should be able to enlarge them to where you can read them..

Gene
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scan0001.jpg   scan0002.jpg  
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

OK Gene I went through everything.
I have 12v at the coil when the key is on.
I have 12v across the stationary side of the points and the negative of the coil.
When I have the high tension wire from the coil near the block and I open and close the points, I see a spark at the points and sometimes a weak yellow spark to the block from the coil wire.

I'm going to take the condenser off and the points. The points are all white and dirty. I'll see if I can get another set from the automotive dealer in town, otherwise I'll order another part from Tim.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

The pictures were too small to enlarge and read. If you can scan them to a PDF that might work.
Thanks,
Tim
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin V465D no spark

Tim,
I would be glad to scan to a pdf---------if I knew how to do it!
Gene
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