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No timing mark on crank?


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  #1  
Old 05-24-2009, 11:21 AM
gruby26 gruby26 is offline
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Default No timing mark on crank?

im working on a koler 12hp. i cant seem to get the timeing right for the cam. all the info i have shows a mark on the cam and crank th line up but the crank i have i cant seem to find a mark on any idea as to why or how i can get it set with out any mark?

the model # is K301a
and the spec# is 47446b
thanks for any help
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Old 05-24-2009, 02:25 PM
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

If there's no mark then you might look for beveled teeth. By all means there should be a mark on ATLEAST the crank. The mark on the crank's tooth would go in between the 2 beveled teeth on the cam. If there are no marks or beveled teeth period, timing can be a little tricky. SIMPLE but tricky. see if you dont find any beveled teeth first. I have come across engines with absolutly no markings before. It does get agrivating.
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Old 05-24-2009, 03:59 PM
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Craig DeShong Craig DeShong is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

I have three engines (all Lauson) where either the timing marks were absent, or I just couldn't see them.

If you install the valves, there should be a place where the exhaust valve closes just before the intake valve begins to open. I find it's easier to feel than see if you place your fingers on top of the valves and rotate the camshaft. The valve springs will help locate this place for you because their pressure on the valves tends to hold the camshaft at this location.

At this position of the camshaft, the crankshaft should be at top-dead-center. If you can find this location, you ought to be good-to-go. It can take a couple attempts to get it right.
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Old 05-24-2009, 11:16 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

Teeth are not marked. There IS a mark on the Kohler crank. If you had the service manuel it would show you.

Kent
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Old 05-25-2009, 12:00 AM
gruby26 gruby26 is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

i got the manuel from my last posting here and the cam gear mark maches but i cant see any typ of crank timeing mark.
I did see the primary and secondary timing marks for the counter weights but nothing for crank to cam timeing
i dont make sence to me ??
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:14 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

The timing mark is a line that is in the casting of the crank. This line is between the gear and the crank throw about 1/4 inch away from the gear.

Kent
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:25 PM
grub54891 grub54891 is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

Hey gruby26,get 'er going yet??
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Old 05-26-2009, 02:11 PM
gruby26 gruby26 is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

no not yet i dont see the timeing mark on the crank like the manual says there should be
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Old 05-26-2009, 02:43 PM
Jerry Jerry is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

How about posting some good pictures of the Crank maybe someone else can see and direct you to it...Just a thought
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:35 AM
gruby26 gruby26 is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

thats a good idea ill work on getting them posted for ya all and hopefully im not crazy after all lol
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Old 05-27-2009, 02:10 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

I am going to post TWO picture of the timing marks on K-series Kohler cranks. One is from a Early K-301 from a 1968 140 JD. This crank has a raised mark. The other is from a later K-301 or a K-341. It has the extra mark for timing the balance gears both of these marks a divoits with the divoit nearer the counter wieght being used to time the balance gears.

Kent
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Old 05-29-2009, 01:36 PM
gruby26 gruby26 is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

i see both marks for the balance gears but none for the cam timeing on mine
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:11 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

In the first picture, the right divoit IS, IS, IS, the timing mark for the cam. IS THAT CLEAR. It may also be used for the balance gears. I do not remember as I ALWAYS consult the service manuel when installing the balance gears. The left hand mark nearer the counter wieght is used ONLY for timing the balance gears.

Kent
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:19 AM
gruby26 gruby26 is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

in the manual is says the marks in the first pic is for the balace gears and the other one is for cam timeing. but i also tryed useing the the mark on the right becuse i didnt see any other and its still off. the intake valve is opening to late and there for staying open too long
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Old 05-30-2009, 01:41 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

The mark on the right is the ONLY make I have ever used when timing the cam on a K-series Kohler. The only thing you need to watch is be sure they line up AFTER the cam is installed because the bevel of the gears make everything move as you slide the gears together. I have never had any timing problem. Over the years I have re-built MANY K-series Kohlers without any problem useing the marks pictured. Are you sure the valve that is staying open TO LONG is not the exhaust valve. If it is the exhaust valve you may be seeing the action of the de-compression release.

Kent
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:03 AM
gruby26 gruby26 is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

thanks for all the help im sure its the intake staying open to long. i can feel the pull on the carb as the piston goes down but then i feel a puff of air just before it closes.
i have all the marks lined up im sure of it
ill have to pull it apart again and go from there
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Old 06-06-2009, 07:39 PM
gruby26 gruby26 is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

i got it running now. i had the timeing right the first time. but what it was is the decompresdon system wasnt working so it didnt turn over fast enuf to fire and sounded to me like it was fireing at the wrong time but its all good now thanks for all the help
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:11 AM
grub54891 grub54891 is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gruby26 View Post
im working on a koler 12hp. i cant seem to get the timeing right for the cam. all the info i have shows a mark on the cam and crank th line up but the crank i have i cant seem to find a mark on any idea as to why or how i can get it set with out any mark?

the model # is K301a
and the spec# is 47446b
thanks for any help
Decided to bring this up again,This is a motor my son is working on.
I was there a couple week's ago and we got it running,timing is correct!Thank's guy's!It seem's we can't get the compression release to work correctly,it's not stuck and the spring's on it are good.but I think it's wore just enough so we can't get the valve settings right.When the valves are set to spec's it won't relase compression.So after snugging the clearance a bit it'll start and run but when she warm's up I belive the valve expand's and hold's the valve open a tad,it'll start flaming out the exhaust a bit.Tried adjusting valves all over the place,either too tight or to loose.Can the compression release be bought seperatly or are we looking at a complete cam??It has new valves that were Put in at a machine shop so I know they are correct also.
Thank's again guy's!
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:03 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

The reason the valve are not setting correctly is because you have the crank/cam in the WRONG position when you are adjusting the valves. I see the ALL of the time. You need to have the piston about 1/4 inch below Top Dead Center AFTER the points have opened. You can now adjust the valves so the de-compression release will function correctly.

Kent
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:09 AM
grub54891 grub54891 is offline
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Default Re: No timing mark on crank?

Ok we will try that next,I think he's tried a bunch of different way's but I havent been there since we got it set up the last time. Thanl's again!!
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