John Deere D Questions

[Joel Sanderson]

I have always been interested in the John Deere D and hope to have one some day before too much longer. Here

[Joel Sanderson]

I don't know WHAT just happened or why that got posted. I wasn't anywhere near the "submit" button or the mouse. As I was saying....

Here are some questions I have that I hope someone will be able to answer for me:

1. How many bottoms does a D pull? Will it handle four sixteens in sandy soil? C.H.Wendall's (sp?) Nebraska Tractor Tests book shows the 1940 D having 34.7 drawbar horsepower, the R having 34.45 drawbar horspower, and the 70 diesel having 34.79 drawbar horsepower. Is the D really in the same class as the 70 and the R?

2. Was the D ever made with a road gear, or a high and low transmition, like on the later A's and B's?

3. Someone told me that not all D's had a differential--that only those with steering brakes did. Is this true?

4. What year did hydrolics become available on the D?

5. What is the usual rear tire size on the D? I see pictures of quite a variety.

Thanks to anyone who can help answer these questions. I am not yet sure that a D is a practical choice for me. However, I have no regrets at all with the A which I bought a couple years ago. It is the nicest, handiest tractor I have ever sat upon. I hope another of that vintage would be as good.

[Forrest A]

1) 3 bottom 16" or 4 bottom 14". Rated and is just that...
2) No road gear but there was a industrial transmission with tiny sprockets but are quite rare. The D transmission is nothing like the other letter tractors had.
3) All factory made Ds had differentials. The turning brakes were added on to a stock D.
4) Hydrolics were added in the 30s but are quite rare. Mainly industrial Ds had hydrolics. I personally would not want this option on any D I would own. They were kind of scabbed on and looked bad (worked about the same too.) I have not seen an exact date on this but I am sure someone could look it up in the D registry.
5)Tire size depends on the rim that was/is on it. The question that is more important here is how much are you willing to spend... A good set of Firestone tires and tubes all around can range from $3,000-$5,000 now. You can go cheaper but you get what you pay for. Common sizes were: 12.75 x 28 or 13.50 x 28 (12 spline axle) also 13 - 30 and 14 -30 tires were used on late styled Ds.

My two cents worth (I am a D man through and through):
Pros...
-Ds are good projects; You can buy a complete fixer upper cheap.
-They are easy to get parts for. I know of a guy who has over 100 parts Ds.
-They are easy to work on (everything is big and there is lots of room in the crank case and transmission). Try restoring an H JD and see what I mean.
-501 CI engine baby!
-Sounds great under load with a straight stack!
-Not as many are brought to the shows (I've never heard any complaints of being to many Ds).
Great for pulling out stumps in your yard.
Least likely to be stolen.
Cons...
-Heavy, @ 5,200-6,200 lbs they are a little heavier than a half ton pickup should be pulling (Including a 3,000 lb trailer it will be 8,200 lbs-9,200 lbs behind your truck!) best to have a 3/4ton truck or bigger.
-Slow. Big tires help in this department but the top speed is quite slow. Sure you could get the small sprockets but then don't expect to be able to pull anything heavy. (If you can even get the sprockets in the first place.)
-Gas guzzler!


Forrest A

[Joel Sanderson]

Thank you, Forest.

The R pulled four sixteens. Why doesn't the D, if it was rated with the same drawbar horsepower? I'm sure it depends on the soil type and conditions. Our 80 is rated for four sixteens, but we pull five with it until it is too wet (like this spring), then the 4020 or the 730 has to take over.

Do you know, off the top of your head, what the speeds are for a D with a standard agricultural transmition? Also, is it true it is driven with an internal chain?

Gas guzzler, eh? I just plowed 12 acres with our 80 and sixteen gallons of diesel. I wonder how much gas a D would have used.

Another thing: my A is a hand start, and it starts well. How are the D's for hand starting? On the electric starters, did they work well, or should I stay with a hand starting model?

[Craig A]

Two speed: Low 2.45mph High 3.27mph and ALL roller chain final drives.

Three speed: ABOUT Low 2.68, Second 3.94 and third 5.22mph at an engine speed of 900 rpms w/13.5" x 28" rear tires.
Expect to blow through 5 gallons of gas an hour.
They hand start easy but you need to prime them heavily......at LEAST 5 full cups of gas each......rock the flywheel a couple times and let 'er rip!
You should have around 40 drawbar horsepower......getting it to the ground is the problem. I think 4 16" bottoms is expecting a bit much.
Don't know about hydraulics......I don't have my books here......

[Wayne Riedlinger]

I have had a1945 D for over 30 years, bought it a couple months before I got married. Would not part with it for anything. Did lots of stump pulling and plowing, 3- 16s was a good load in the soil around my old place, really made her bark. I always liked them since I was a wee lad. I would watch the neighbor all afternoon across the road work the field with it. I think you wont go wrong with one.

[Ken Majeski]

The early D's on steel would only go about 4500 pounds. The first ones untill 1931 only ran 800 RPM and weren't the best for Belt Work.

Then in 1931 they came out with the 900 RPM D. These had a smaller pulley and counterbalanced crank and were a Lot better for Belt work. These were changed to 3 speeds around 1935. I had a 1937 and it would run right along with a 22-36 IH on the belt although had a faster belt speed.

Where you get into the 6000 pound model is the styled 3 speed with the Cast Iron Rear wheels...

[Forrest A]

HP for a mid 30s and up to 1953 D was 36 on the drawbar and 42 at the belt pulley. The biggest problem with a stock D was not enough weight to keep the tires planted that is why a lot of them got the rear wheels filled with cement. The R was a powerhouse with more horsepower and way more torque.

Here is something to consider, a 502 CI V-8 at 900 RPM puts out about 22hp at the crank. Now consider the power out of a D at 900 RPM= 42hp at the crank, not to shabby! Just imagine the HP output if the crank in a D could stand 5000rpm!

[Forrest A]

As for starting, a D doesn't have to start hard. If you go to the link below it takes you to my YouTube Channel where I start my D for the first time after sitting all winter. I only turned the choke on before starting the camera and then just before she pops I shut the choke off. One revolution of the crank with one intake stroke with the choke closed is all it should take. The biggest problem you will run into is flooding. Once flooded you will never get it started until it drys out. By the way the gas in the tank smelled like varnish and it still started ok. Ds love stale gas!


http://www.youtube.com/mascobe

Forrest

[GADavis]

The "D" was once said to burn most anything you could get through the carburetor by the old farmers.

[ssimntih]

i as well love my unstyled 1935 D. mine wont start until theres gas leaking from between the carburetor and the aircleaner casting, unless its warm then sometimes i dont even have to choke it. nebraska test no. 236 gives the "new model D" for 1935 a rating of 40.11 belt hp. and 30.74 drawbar hp at 4,037lbs at 2.86 mph pull, an exceptional rating seeing as the tractor was approaching 71%of its own weight, also noted was the fact that the tractor required no repairs or adjustments in the entire 43 hours of testing. the model D was built to last, mine was used daily from 1935 to the mid 80's. it was tired after that but sure didnt take much to get it back to going again. im glad you asked about the rear tire size as i had been wondering as well, ive seen D's with up to 14.9x28 tires on them. does anyone know if anyone makes reproduction brake bands?

[Ken Majeski]

The 28 D I had liked priming through the priming cups although it did have a spring loaded choke... Just try holding the choke on while turning the 501 Cubes with one hand... That one I would give a Good drink in each cup and usually start on the first rollover...

The 37 had a regular choke.... I would just get it to that Free spot and back it up then put choke on and roll it ahead untill compression and bounce it once or twice (You could hear it sucking fuel) Then put choke off and it would usually start on the first Rollover...

As with any John Deere if you choked it untill it fired and didn't get the choke off with the Speed Of Light you had it Flooded....

Yes... My old 37 D burnt quite a Mistakes at the pump when people grabbed the Diesel nozzle when stations first got diesel in this area... Good source of Free Fuel

[Wayne Riedlinger]

Any shop that rebuilds clutches for trucks and equipment should have friction material. Also McMaster Carr and Grainger. I have replaced mine several times.A couple times I dint have enough friction material left so I used old Threshing machine belt, Doesn't last as long but doesn't cost anything either

[Joel Sanderson]

Old threshing belt? I assume you mean leather, not rubber, belt? I used leather belting for a brake on one of my power hammers.

Five gallons an hour, eh? WOW. That is a lot. I plow because I can plow and cultivate and get better and cheaper weed conrol than I can having it sprayed. I have also had higher yeilds this way. Maybe five gallons an hour would make me reconsider the net result.

I talked to a fellow who had a D for sale this spring, and he said he pulled four 14's with no wheel weights and no fluid in his tires. He said it had to trouble and should be able to pull 4 16's. It was a later model, but still, it seems like that would have slipped around terribly. Maybe he is on really light soil, I don't know.

I don't prime my A to start it--I merely pull it through twice with the choke on, open the choke, and off she goes. The bigger D must be a different thing. And what is this "free spot" you're talking about, Ken? I have heard of folks starting their A's by rocking back and forth instead of pulling through. How is that done? Sorry Forest, by my Macintosh doesn't let me see U-tube, so I can't watch you start yours. I sure would like to though.

When I flood my Reid, I use an air compressor to blow into the compression release to clear it out. I suppose that would work on a tractor too, if it were lined up with the exhaust valve open.

[Dempster]

3 to 4 bottoms going to depend more on your soil type.

All Ds had a differential it's in the transmission area not between the axles. D is chain drive from the differential gears to the larger axle gears.

The rear axle gears could be changed for faster speeds but the 41 tooth was most common and large gear used in them. You can tell it easily with the trans cover off because the gear and chain is very close to the back of trans case. Some industrial unstyled Ds came with smaller gears for faster speeds but most times the gears were special ordered and changed out. I once had a 35 D and the original owner had changed the rear gears to 28 tooth and put 32" tires on back and 20" truck tires on front so it would go faster to road a thresher it went 15 mph in 3rd ! It wouldn't pull a big load in field that way always having to use 1st but would move something down the road faster. Unstyled Ds could use a 22, 28, 38 & 41 tooth axle gears and later unstyled with turning brakes could have 35 tooth gears. The gears bolted on the unstyled axles until they were changed to splines in late 1936. Axles and splines were different on styled Ds they used 28, 35 or 41 tooth gears. I've had or seen several styled Ds that originally had 35 tooth gears from factory they had a decal on back of trans telling about the 35 tooth gears and you added more oil for that just like for the other smaller gears so the chains on bottom of back gears ran in oil and trans could stay lubed. The operators manuals told about how much oil to put in for the smaller gears in rear. I still have several rear gear sets from changing some around and from parts tractors were scrapped out. They will pull the best with 41 or 35 tooth gears.

28" & 30" tires were standard in several different widths over the years and depending on if have cut offs with welded on rims or cast centers with rims on what width will clear the fenders not rubbing. Many had rims offset or widened out modified for wider tires too.

The D being made so many years best you can do is decide which one you want first and get then manuals for it then. Parts catalogs for them can be downloaded off the JD parts site no charge in pdf files. It's best to have unstyled and styled parts books then you can see what parts interchange and what changes were made over the years. Like the 31 to 53 D the basic engine is same just different carbs and air cleaners but the 2 speed trans was changed to 3 speed and the axles were changed plus the styling later.

There were aftermarket hydraulic add on kits and JD made sold a couple kits too. The last JD hydraulic conversion kit for the D was the pump put between the mag and governor drive with lines ran to a valve body housing from a styled AR that the other type seat mounted on too. That casting was bolted on the platform replacing the seat and had the reservoir, valve body, outlet couplers and seat all built into one bolt on unit that connected to the pump by hoses or lines.

[Forrest A]

The "free spot" that Ken is refering to is the portion of the crankshaft rotation where the intake strokes took place on all JD two cylinder tractors, not just the D. Even using the spring loaded choke on the earlier Ds you can turn it over enough with one hand to give it a good drink of gas (given everything is working properly with the fuel system). The jet on a D carb is nearly 1/4 inch so when you choke it the column of gas is like a 1/4 inch squirt gun, it gets way more than enough fuel choked.

If you do get one flooded the quickest way to get it going is to open the choke, shut off the gas and open the the throttle and start cranking. When it pops turn the gas on, put the throttle at half open (look at the throttle horn on the carb, setting it so it is only open half way) but leave the choke off. It will usually start soon after.

I have put my time in hand starting Ds in various states of floodedness, the worst being the barn fresh ones with sticky main bearings. Not very fun...

One of the bighgest reasons not to flood a D out is that the extra gas getting to the cylinder also drains part the piston rings and right into your oil. Fortunately gas evaporates and is cooked out by running the D till it is hot. Kerosene is a different story, if you burn kerosene and let that run into the oil it will thin the oil and wear becomes and issue.

One other thing. If you plan on adjusting the carb on your D always let it get up to temperature, they run a whole lot different when hot than when cold. You will find two settings for the load needle are needed, one for puttering around and one for giving it the berries, like plowing. There is no happy medium. Just note where those two settings are and set the load needle for what you are going to be doing.

Forrest A

[Joel Sanderson]

That is interesting about the different gears on the axile, Dempster. Thanks.

Please do not think that I am arguing about the number of bottoms a D should pull. I just don't quite understand how Deere came up with their ratings. For instance, the later A and the G were within a horsepower of each other, both at the drawbar and at the belt, yet the G pulled three bottoms while the A pulled two. The D, on the other hand, is a lot more beast than the G (isn't it?) and is given the same number of bottoms to pull even though it had almost ten more drawbar horsepower. I don't get it.

I really appreciate all the help you fellows have offered. I will consider everything when choosing my D.

[MoRo]

The D's were designed to run on distillate, so ran with better fuel economy than they did on gasoline. That's the reason they'll gulp down 5 gal/hr so handily. All the "fuel model" tractors were like that.

[Joel Sanderson]

That's interesting. Has anyone made up a mixture to find an ideal economy or power? I wonder what "distalate" really was. I've heard it was on a par with kerosene, but I don 't know. I find I get better power and results with my Reid burning a diesel-gasoline mixture. Maybe I should concoct something for my all-fuel A as well. On that note, has anyone had troubles in their Deeres with this new ethonal-gasoline we get these days?

[ronm]

Joel, the "plow rating" of tractors was about as arbitrary & subjective as anything. Soil conditions, altitude, etc. make such a difference as to make them pretty unreliable. For instance, in the valley where I live, 4500ft. elevation & adobe soil known locally as "tiger sh*t", a D is hard put to pull 2 16" bottoms. A's will maybe pull one 16, B's one 14". Even a 4020, which is a "4-5 plow" tractor in the midwest, is only good for 3 16's here. It takes about 115 HP, a 4320, to pull 4 16's, & that may be marginal if the ground is dry.